Re: [Harp-L] groove vs swing

[Mike Wilbur <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yesir, yesir, yesir
Never saw a Horn Player that didn't Sway.....

Groove is " Sway with Wood "

Mike Wilbur



On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:50 PM, Buck Worley <boogalloo@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> This is perhaps one of the most interesting discussions I have read on harpl.
> Many good points being made and I do not agree with them all, but still worth reading the different opinions.
> Here's one term that I have not seen on the thread:
> "Playing in the pocket"
> On the foot tapping thing. Watch some players for instance Clapton and you will see them raising one leg at a point that seems to serve no purpose other than to indicate that the performer is feeling the groove and is inspired. I find myself doing that when I feel the groove, meaning everything seems right with the world and the magic is happening.Other times I be swaying back and forth and other times lifting my foot on the down beat other times patting my foot down on the down beat.
> I do believe that the rhythm section lays the foundation and with out a good groove from the R section, a groove cannot exist.
> After reading all the posts, I have concluded that defining groove is a nebulous thing that can not be done but I do agree with those that have stated that if it's there, you know it and that was debunked by someone who mentioned doing a session, thinking he/she was in the groove and after listening to playback realized that it sucked and made correction accordingly. Been there and done that!
> Imho, it is not a singular thing unless perhaps one is performing solo with no other instrumentation.
> Buck
> 
> 
> 
>> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] groove vs swing
>> From: 3n037@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:41:25 -0400
>> To: bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> CC: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:07 PM, Bob Cohen wrote:
>> 
>>> *** Warning. Turn down the sensitivity knob, (good natured) sarcasm will be in full use. ***
>> 
>> Ok, I'll bite. (No not literally). ;)
>>> 
>>> On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Joseph Leone <3n037@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I have never known a jam track to have a groove.
>>> 
>>> Depends on who lays down the tracks. You've got to get out more Joe.:-p  I mentioned jam tracks as an ersatz substitute for a metronome, which, as Slim pointed out, is the device of choice to learn to play in time.
>> 
>> Ha ha, It's because I DO get out more that I don't have a lot of experience with jam tracks. I generally only play with live musicians. One of the reasons why I don't play very often at fests is because I would have to use tracks, and so far, I am not impressed with what is out there. Check my you tubes with a quartet and then with tracks..Bigga differencia. I tend to break meter...I wonder if that has anything to do with groove? I run ahead of the beat, I lag behind the beat. In other words, I 'phrase' what I do. Sinatra wasn't the greatest voice around, BUT the kid knew how to phrase. AND he lade a couple million Lire doing it. Hmmm, I wonder if phrasing has anything to do with groove.  
>>> 
>>>> I have never known a metronome to have a groove.
>>> 
>>> If you want to go there, no physical object has a groove, that's an idea in the mind of a musician which he communicates to a listener via an instrument of some sort. So strictly speaking, imho, I have never known an instrument of any sort to have a groove. :-p
>> 
>> The metronome that I have (Vitmer Taktell) RULES my playing. I don't like that. I may be in the minority? But I don't like robots ruling my playing. I want to be free to express myself as I like. Hmmm, I wonder if 'freedom of expression' has anything to do with groove.  
>>> 
>>> Having said that, a musician who lacks technique to play in time as demanded by a particular form of music, cannot lay down a groove. Ergo, practicing with a metronome.
>> 
>> Good point. Maybe I need to bring one to the Wed. & Sun. jams
>>> 
>>>> I have never been in a college dorm bull session, so can't give an opinion.
>> 
>>>> You know what I mean Joe, lol.
>> 
>> Yes, I was joshing you. 
>> 
>>>> It's kind of like what happens when a bunch of old men gather at their favorite coffee shop to talk about politics and the general decline of Western Civilization.
>> 
>> Right, I don't do that.  Went to a gathering of Seebees once. Spent the evening listening to war stories and by the end of the evening, everyone was drunk and falling face down into their spaghetti. Went to a gathering of retired troopers once. Spent the evening listening to their war stories. By the end of the evening, everyone was drunk and falling with their face into their spaghetti. 
>> 
>>>> There's a lot of stale hot air circulating around the room but very little breathable oxygen.
>> 
>> Uh-huh, I agree. What I also agree with (with myself, that is) is that people are trying to analyze this subject in a scientific or mathematical way. Like music theory. HEY, everyone wake up. That's why they call it theory. I can remember listening to musicians in the Caribbean, No. Africa, the Balkans. They knew NOTHING about that stuff. But they could PLAY. Sooo, the question is? Do any of them have groove. I dunno but you could have fooled me. 
>> 
>> Jo-Zeppi   (TA  smokey joe & the cafes...except 3 are now dead). 
>> 
>> Love ya Bob, all taken in good spirit..as it was intended... :)
>>> 
>>> Bob Cohen
>>> Writer, Internet Consultant, Teacher
>>> w: bobjcohen.com
>>> t: #itsabobworld
>> 
>> 
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