Re: [Harp-L] groove vs swing

[Michael Rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>]

A good start with groove is to recognize it a largely a timing issue.  Can
you create a rhythm that will get people's bodies moving?  You want to have
practiced tapping your foot with a metronome while you are playing
harmonica (and have your playing intentionally start and stop at different
downbeats and upbeats) so much that when you play with others, you can
quickly emulate their rhythmic pulse.

Although I appreciate jam tracks and use them, especially band in a box, I
feel they are fairly useless when it comes to teaching groove.  If the
person using the jam track is extremely strict with themselves and is
always tapping their foot on each downbeat, or at least every other
downbeat, then training occurs.  Otherwise, jamming to a jam track is about
relaxing and training the improvising muscle.  There are a lot of musicians
who can improvise great ideas but their timing is terrible.  Metronome is
the light, the way.

After a while, be able to keep a steady beat without the metronome.  Be
able to suggest the chord changes without the rhythm players.  Estrin told
me, "If it doesn't make sense without the band, it doesn't make sense with
the band."
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Bob Cohen <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Philharpn@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > Nobody seems to be able to define groove, but they know it when they
> hear it. And if you can't define, you're just talking in circles. That's
> groovy. That's cool.
>
> All forms of art and communication assume a subject, an object, and a set
> of symbols to communicate ideas. For a musician, music at it's most basic
> level is sounds and silence organized within a specific time framework.
>
> Groove has two parts the objective and the subjective. The objective is
> about technique and the rules of a specific form of music. Musicians
> establish groove when everyone on stage executes the rules of that form of
> music. Then there's a unified feeling which we call groove. How we perceive
> that phenomenon is another matter and, imho, is the subject for late-night
> dorm room bull sessions.
>
> Arguably, all forms of music have their own zeitgeist and a case can be
> made that form and feel are inseparable for listeners but I think for
> musicians the more useful discussion focuses on technical execution vs.
> "feel".
>
> The bottom line is get a metronome or if you're a blues player, something
> like Jimi Lee's groove trax and practice, practice, practice.
>
> > Harmonica players probably have the most trouble with groove because
> they are the least likely to establish it -- because harp players are
> mostly sidemen. They have to follow the groove, not set it up.
>
> I disagree. The ability to perceive, establish, or relate to groove has to
> do with listening, technique, and practice. Most people require training to
> learn how to listen and develop technique and practice to execute. The
> elephant in the room is that most harmonica players are not well trained
> and neither do they practice. We've discussions about that here many times
>
> In the blues context, many harmonica players are anti-traning. They think
> that because Little/Big/Sonnyboy/etc didn't go to conservatory, they don't
> have to either. Those guys were natural born geniuses. The rest of us need
> training and practice.
>
> > The rhythm players set the groove, which can be as square as Lawrence
> Welk or as swinging as Benny Goodman.
>
> --snip--
>
> Difficulties with fidelity to the groove, whether straight or swung has to
> do with training and practice.
>
> > It also raises the old issue of how come trained classical musicians
> can't swing?
>
> Of course they can swing. They just don't because that's not the kind of
> music they play. But believe me, if, for example, the Boston Symphony
> Orchestra musical director added an Ellington piece their repertoire,
> they'd be the swinginest mofos this side of Harlem.
> Bob Cohen
> Writer, Internet Consultant, Teacher
> w: bobjcohen.com
> t: #itsabobworld
>
>
>