Re: [Harp-L] groove vs swing

[Bob Cohen <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Philharpn@xxxxxxx wrote:

> Nobody seems to be able to define groove, but they know it when they hear it. And if you can't define, you're just talking in circles. That's groovy. That's cool.

All forms of art and communication assume a subject, an object, and a set of symbols to communicate ideas. For a musician, music at it's most basic level is sounds and silence organized within a specific time framework. 

Groove has two parts the objective and the subjective. The objective is about technique and the rules of a specific form of music. Musicians establish groove when everyone on stage executes the rules of that form of music. Then there's a unified feeling which we call groove. How we perceive that phenomenon is another matter and, imho, is the subject for late-night dorm room bull sessions.

Arguably, all forms of music have their own zeitgeist and a case can be made that form and feel are inseparable for listeners but I think for musicians the more useful discussion focuses on technical execution vs. "feel".

The bottom line is get a metronome or if you're a blues player, something like Jimi Lee's groove trax and practice, practice, practice.

> Harmonica players probably have the most trouble with groove because they are the least likely to establish it -- because harp players are mostly sidemen. They have to follow the groove, not set it up.

I disagree. The ability to perceive, establish, or relate to groove has to do with listening, technique, and practice. Most people require training to learn how to listen and develop technique and practice to execute. The elephant in the room is that most harmonica players are not well trained and neither do they practice. We've discussions about that here many times 

In the blues context, many harmonica players are anti-traning. They think that because Little/Big/Sonnyboy/etc didn't go to conservatory, they don't have to either. Those guys were natural born geniuses. The rest of us need training and practice.

> The rhythm players set the groove, which can be as square as Lawrence Welk or as swinging as Benny Goodman.

--snip--

Difficulties with fidelity to the groove, whether straight or swung has to do with training and practice.

> It also raises the old issue of how come trained classical musicians can't swing?

Of course they can swing. They just don't because that's not the kind of music they play. But believe me, if, for example, the Boston Symphony Orchestra musical director added an Ellington piece their repertoire, they'd be the swinginest mofos this side of Harlem.
Bob Cohen
Writer, Internet Consultant, Teacher
w: bobjcohen.com
t: #itsabobworld