Re: [Harp-L] groove vs swing

[Michael Rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>]

I call bull.  I have raised countless students back from the timing dead.
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:21 AM, jeffrey baker <acornfr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> I'm a second generation musician my Pop has perfect pitch and gigs 3 to 4
> times a month , oh and I should mention he's 90 years old ! ! !
> I believe groove and feel are synonymous . " He just shook his head and
> walked away. "  There are countless institutions that teach theory and
> structure . There is no school that teaches feel.
> You either have it or you don't . . .
>
> On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:58 AM, philharpn@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > Nobody seems to be able to define groove, but they know it when they
> hear it. And if you can't define, you're just talking in circles. That's
> groovy. That's cool.
> >
> >
> > Harmonica players probably have the most trouble with groove because
> they are the least likely to establish it -- because harp players are
> mostly sidemen. They have to follow the groove, not set it up.
> >
> >
> > The rhythm players set the groove, which can be as square as Lawrence
> Welk or as swinging as Benny Goodman.
> >
> >
> > In other words this gets into playing before or after the beat -- as
> opposed to on the beat.
> >
> >
> > Most people have trouble just playing on the beat with out rushing or
> slowing down or up.
> >
> >
> > For some people swing is confusing; they don't quite know where the beat
> is.
> >
> >
> > I've looked at most of the posts on this groove threat and I have not
> seen anybody define period. In English. In musical terms.
> >
> >
> > Obviously, if someone has a group of people and tells them: "This is a
> groove. Play along with me."
> > And damn if they don't. Ask then 10 minutes later to play it off the top
> of their heads and see how many still can.
> >
> >
> > It also raises the old issue of how come trained classical musicians
> can't swing?
> >
> >
> > They can -- if the music is marked in the upper left corner by the time
> signature: "swing 8ths"
> >
> >
> > Or they are told the tune is played with swing 8ths. Otherwise, if they
> are just reading the music; the music says straight 8ths (that's what it
> means with no markings or instructions). Now if you are in a band that
> swings -- everybody knows to swing.
> >
> >
> > Lots of songs don't work with swing; which is probably  a shock to some.
> When is the last time you heard a swing hymn? Swing folksong? Swing
> Americana? Maybe bluegrass swings.
> >
> >
> > I was talking to a musician friend the other day about this discussion.
> His reaction: "That's cool. A bunch of harmonica players sitting around
> talking music terminology. How would they know? As a group, harmonica
> players are about the least musically informed people who hang around with
> musicians."
> >
> >
> > I said that's not true; I know a lot of well-informed harmonica players.
> He just shook his head and walked away.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>