Re: [Harp-L] groove vs swing

[jeffrey baker <acornfr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I'm a second generation musician my Pop has perfect pitch and gigs 3 to 4 times a month , oh and I should mention he's 90 years old ! ! !
I believe groove and feel are synonymous . " He just shook his head and walked away. "  There are countless institutions that teach theory and structure . There is no school that teaches feel.
You either have it or you don't . . .

On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:58 AM, philharpn@xxxxxxx wrote:

> Nobody seems to be able to define groove, but they know it when they hear it. And if you can't define, you're just talking in circles. That's groovy. That's cool.
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> Harmonica players probably have the most trouble with groove because they are the least likely to establish it -- because harp players are mostly sidemen. They have to follow the groove, not set it up.
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> The rhythm players set the groove, which can be as square as Lawrence Welk or as swinging as Benny Goodman.
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> In other words this gets into playing before or after the beat -- as opposed to on the beat.
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> Most people have trouble just playing on the beat with out rushing or slowing down or up.
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> For some people swing is confusing; they don't quite know where the beat is.
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> I've looked at most of the posts on this groove threat and I have not seen anybody define period. In English. In musical terms.
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> Obviously, if someone has a group of people and tells them: "This is a groove. Play along with me."
> And damn if they don't. Ask then 10 minutes later to play it off the top of their heads and see how many still can.
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> It also raises the old issue of how come trained classical musicians can't swing?
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> They can -- if the music is marked in the upper left corner by the time signature: "swing 8ths"
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> Or they are told the tune is played with swing 8ths. Otherwise, if they are just reading the music; the music says straight 8ths (that's what it means with no markings or instructions). Now if you are in a band that swings -- everybody knows to swing.
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> Lots of songs don't work with swing; which is probably  a shock to some. When is the last time you heard a swing hymn? Swing folksong? Swing Americana? Maybe bluegrass swings.
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> I was talking to a musician friend the other day about this discussion. His reaction: "That's cool. A bunch of harmonica players sitting around talking music terminology. How would they know? As a group, harmonica players are about the least musically informed people who hang around with musicians."
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> I said that's not true; I know a lot of well-informed harmonica players. He just shook his head and walked away.
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