[Harp-L] groove vs swing

[philharpn@xxxxxxx]

Nobody seems to be able to define groove, but they know it when they hear it. And if you can't define, you're just talking in circles. That's groovy. That's cool.


Harmonica players probably have the most trouble with groove because they are the least likely to establish it -- because harp players are mostly sidemen. They have to follow the groove, not set it up.


The rhythm players set the groove, which can be as square as Lawrence Welk or as swinging as Benny Goodman.


In other words this gets into playing before or after the beat -- as opposed to on the beat.


Most people have trouble just playing on the beat with out rushing or slowing down or up.


For some people swing is confusing; they don't quite know where the beat is.


I've looked at most of the posts on this groove threat and I have not seen anybody define period. In English. In musical terms.


Obviously, if someone has a group of people and tells them: "This is a groove. Play along with me."
And damn if they don't. Ask then 10 minutes later to play it off the top of their heads and see how many still can.


It also raises the old issue of how come trained classical musicians can't swing?


They can -- if the music is marked in the upper left corner by the time signature: "swing 8ths"


Or they are told the tune is played with swing 8ths. Otherwise, if they are just reading the music; the music says straight 8ths (that's what it means with no markings or instructions). Now if you are in a band that swings -- everybody knows to swing.


Lots of songs don't work with swing; which is probably  a shock to some. When is the last time you heard a swing hymn? Swing folksong? Swing Americana? Maybe bluegrass swings.


I was talking to a musician friend the other day about this discussion. His reaction: "That's cool. A bunch of harmonica players sitting around talking music terminology. How would they know? As a group, harmonica players are about the least musically informed people who hang around with musicians."


I said that's not true; I know a lot of well-informed harmonica players. He just shook his head and walked away.