Re: [Harp-L] Re: Cables: Are there really any sonic differences?

[MARK BURNESS <markwjburness@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Garry,

I don't think it's that science has no place in this discussion, it's more that 
a scientific test requires investment & funding...who pays for it? The market in 
terms of % penetration of the general population is pretty small, respondents 
would expensive to recruit & need paying for their time...yes, this kind of 
testing/research takes place every day, but you typically are talking about 
products with $million shares in even bigger markets. 


Subsequently, typical tests are carried out at grass roots levels, by hopefully 
unbiased participants. I agree that you have no firm way of assessing 
evidence...but if, for instance, in idependantly run tests, a particular cable 
consistently scores highly, I think it's perhaps reasonable to assume that not 
everyone involved in those tests is an easily influenced, new agey, dreamer.

For my part I'd love to see some scientific assessment/evaluation...I just don't 
have the $50K-$100K & 3-4 spare months for test design & data collection, plus 
whatever for scientific testing...then repeat every time a new product hits the 
market. But science is normally used to back up, or otherwise, perceptions that 
have been established by less formal means. So either way, even if not 
definitive, these testimonials/empirical tests are part of the process...

Ultimately, in a perception driven market, based on subjective opinion, a 
successfull company is aiming to provide a product that people like, if it has 
tangible benefits too then all the better, but sales is the bottom line. At 
least the testing carried out by Jim Rossen's bandmates & myself (for example) 
is independent from manufacturer influence/agenda.

All the best, Mark.



________________________________
From: Garry <harp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: harp-l harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, 4 March, 2011 13:27:22
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Cables: Are there really any sonic differences?

On 03/04/2011 06:42 AM, MARK BURNESS wrote:
> Science - you offer no scientific data, test, results to prove/disprove your 
>assertions. You claim not to care about the results of any tests, tests that you 
>have not even conducted. You offer only perspective based on suggestion & 
>hearsay, yet you clearly have already adopted a position on the subject. This is 
>not science, you are not being scientific.
nonsense.  i clearly stated that i don't know if there are sonic differences.
my complaint was with the notion that science had no place in the discussion.

> Do you need a mass spectrometer to tell you which flavour ice cream you prefer, 
>or your preferred brand of beer? When asked how you like your food, what 
>parameters do you measure & what equipment do you use & take to a restaurant 
>with you? I guess that you forego the "scientific proof" and use your 
>senses...like a  professional chef, whisky bender, flavour house, etc.
i think we're talking past each other.  clearly if it is the case that different 
cables sound different, then your preference or mine is purely a subjective 
matter.  i did not think this case had been made, and was objecting to the fact 
that it couldn't be.  a well constructed double blind test should be able to 
determine whether or not people can discern sonic differences.

> I'm not trying to sell you anything,
i apologize if i implied that.  that was not my intent.

>  the main reason I would expect you to give me the benefit of the doubt is 
>because I have conducted some testing (cables, amps, tubes, speakers, harps) 
>probably everyday for the last decade...

which i should have inferred from your single statement "Garry, music is
assessed with human ears, if you don't trust them, then it's time to
hang up the harps."?

> you appear to have just typed a mail & declare no interest in the subject.
i have no great interest in whether different cables sound different.  i have a 
great
deal of interest in the value of evidence vs. testimonial.

i'll stop pontificating from the sidelines now.

-- We make a living from what we get,
but we make a life from what we give.
- Kathy Moser