Re: [Harp-L] Subject: Re: Dumping on other harmonica players' Videos for no good reason...

[Shelly <shelly0112@xxxxxxxxx>]

Thank you for writing this Elizabeth.  I am new here and have been sitting
here in shock and sadness at some of the emails I've read.  I have written
and said positive things about some of the players who have been dissed.
But I know that as a new member it just doesn't make sense to do much else.

I joined another group a few months before this one.  Maybe the contrast is
one of the things that makes this dumping on other players so prominent to
me.  Many groups and forums welcome new blood and have a desire to keep
their forums alive by attracting productive new members.  I wonder if having
new members is one thing that keeps this kind of activity to a minimum in
the other group.

People can say they were joking ("oh you don't understand my sense of
humor") or rationalize it in some other way.  They can object to your choice
of words.  If you don't think you've been dumping on other players then
insert your verb of choice.  But the names that some of these players have
been called and the tone of the emails is unattractively negative.

And since I'm still upset about the entire Keith Relf dissing, here is a
little more info for those with open minds.  And/or those who may enjoy
learning about a player they didn't know much about.

In the Autumn of 1963 Sonny Boy Williamson went to see the Yardbirds (Relf's
group... he put it together) perform.  He sat with Relf at the break, they
talked harp and SB showed Relf some new tricks.  SB decided that night that
he wanted to go to London and record an album with the Ybirds, which he did
about 4 months later.  He had even written some new songs specifically for
the recording.

My point is, you can call Keith "lousy" or say he "doesn't know how to hold
the harmonica" (he was probably trying to catch some breath for a change!!)
but it makes me wonder if you even know who you are dissing.  I think
Keith's work stands quite well on its own.  But the fact that SB decided the
very night he went to see them perform that he wanted to record with them
also says a lot.

When I pointed out that Keith died at age 33 and was not here to defend
himself the response was made that he didn't need to.  I beg to differ.  I
can't sit by and see someone attacked and not say/do anything.  And when
that person is clearly not present, not even able to be present, they most
certainly do need someone to present facts and defend them.

If you all want me out of Dodge just let me know.  I know you have been
together for a long time and I respect that.  Still, your group is open to
new members and I thought you might want to know how this looks with fresh
eyes.

Again, thank you for writing Elizabeth.  Thanks very much!

Shelly   (Defender of the Dead)



On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM, <EGS1217@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> I don't know why you'd bring SPAH into it Billy,  but your post does bring
> up something I've wanted to make clear  to anyone tuning in for the first
> time: the harmonica world isn't ONLY made up  of Blues, or Jazz, or
> Classical
> players, or harp-l for that matter.
>
> There actually ARE those of us who prefer to play other songs on our
> harmonicas.  I do get that the majority of people posting here are Blues
>  players
> and believe that the world revolves around blues only, but that's far  from
> reality.
>
> While there are people in Europe, Asia, Australia and South America  who
> enjoy copying American Blues, they are certainly not in the majority. The
> harmonica is predominantly used to play whatever music is played IN their
> own
> countries, even to the Pop music of the day.
>
> For my part, I prefer to play R&B, Classic Rock, Old Standards or  Smooth
> Jazz (whichever interpretation you make of that) or any other  song which
> strikes my fancy no matter the 'genre'. While I wouldn't recognize a  Lady
> gaga
> song and have no interest whatsoever in that particular singer, there
> still are some reasonably contemporary artists whose music I consider
>  perfectly
> acceptable to cover. I play Sade songs, Gloria Estefan, Cyndia Lauper,  The
> Eagles, Simply Red, to name just a few. To each his own.
>
> There's an interesting interview with Elvin Bishop in the current  BluesWax
> Ezine referring to his earlier descriptions of 'Blues Nazis'  who dumped on
> him for his playing which he reaffirms to the interviewer.
>
> I personally don't feel anyone has earned the right to be a  'harmonica
> nazi', I don't care how good you are.
> Where is it written that the instrument MUST be used for one 'style' or
> sound only? If that were the case shouldn't we all then still be playing
> German  Oompah music?
>
> Thank goodness for those willing to step outside the box...a la LD Miller
> at last year's SPAH, so ably backed and encouraged by Brendan Power. It was
> incredibly brilliant and to my mind at least shows one direction the
> 'future' of  the harmonica just might take...I was dying to hear more.
>
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqvnIalGgBk_
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqvnIalGgBk)
>
>
>
> We should all be able to play and enjoy whatever music floats our  own
> particular boat without being looked down on or made fun of by  other
> harmonica
> players. EsPECIALLY other harmonica players!
>
> Speaking of SPAH - the entire premise of SPAH in case some of you don't
> know or have forgotten is: 'Preservation and Advancement of the Harmonica'.
> It's  not: 'Preservation and Advancement of: blues, jazz, classical -
> harmonica to the  exclusion of all other types of music'.
>
> What's particularly interesting is that the very best players who have
> achieved the highest pinnacles of success and skill (and this is true with
> most
>  instruments as well) are the ones least likely to dump on other musicians.
>
> Martin made a comment earlier about wondering why would we think  it'd be a
> good thing to promote the playing of harmonica among children and  I see
> this as part of the same discussion:  Because - with new players of  any
> genre
> coming along - showing interest in harmonica, buying instruments as  they
> develop their interest, keeps harmonica companies in business which in turn
> helps YOU (and all of us) still have access to the instruments we hope to
> keep  playing. If for no other reason than pure selfishness, it behooves us
> to
> welcome  new players.
>
> For some strange reason people here seem to believe they speak for the
> harmonica community at large and have no real recognition that they are
>  only a
> tiny microcosm of the HUGE harmonica playing community around the  World.
> There are hundreds of thousands of players out there who have absolutely
>  NO
> idea that this and/or any other harmonica group exists and would care less
> even if they did know. They don't care what conclusions you all come to,
> don't  care what 'tests' are run (and decisions made which are then
> supposedly
> binding  on the rest of them), and for the most part - a lot of these
> players don't  go online to discuss anything harmonica related.
>
> I've been conducting my own extremely casual survey of people at  different
> conventions for the last 5 years and even at Buckeye, SPAH and  GSHC one
> might be surprised by just how many players and even headliners  didn't
> ever
> go online or think of using a computer and had never heard of  any of the
> harmonica lists including this one. Although perhaps some are  becoming
> more
> computer savvy now.
>
>  What a huge majority of harmonica players do is play on their  back
> porches, or with their friends, or down at their local bars or other
>  musical
> gathering places - play by their own (very democratic) rules  as Angus so
> nicely
> explained it, and don't give a hoot whether or not another  player meets
> certain lofty standards expressed here. They're there to play MUSIC  and
> for
> the pure absolute joy of it, not to savage and belittle other players to
> perhaps make themselves look or feel better about their own skills (or lack
> thereof?)
>
> When did it all turn into such meanness is what I want to know?   As a kid
> I played harmonica and never heard any of this back-biting or  viciousness
> directed towards me, thankfully, since I doubt I would ever  have come back
> to playing harmonica if I'd known this attitude was THE most  prevalent one
> among the people I've come to know.  And like Angus, there is  no way in
> hell
> I'd ever post a video of my own amateurish playing despite being  asked
> dozens of times - even if the playing of a particular song  gave me the
> greatest pleasure, since a lot of people here seem to think of it as
>  purely a
> means to tear another person apart.
>
> I find this very uncomfortable, and it should be beneath you all  as
> self-described musicians.
>
> Yes, I've watched some videos where I found the playing not great (in my
> own opinion) missing crucial notes and even far off the tune being played.
> But  who or what gave ME the right to dump on or savage the person playing?
> No
> one.  So I don't. IF asked, I might gently steer them to listening to the
> actual song  to hear where they went 'off', but other than that, it's
> neither
> my place nor my  right to judge.
>
> And now I'm quite sure the same people will round on me and attack because
> (like last time) I'll be told that because the person put his/her video on
> youtube he/she 'deserves' to be savaged/dissected here on harp-l.
>
>  Despite many of you rationalizing it thusly, I still beg to  differ.  In
> many cases the person putting up their video closes the  dialogue comments
> box after the first few vicious comments in order to NOT  have to tolerate
> the
> awful 'slings and arrows'. They just might be posting  videos on request
> for family and friends living distances away.  Or, could  be doing it as
> way
> of watching their own progress to get the feel of performing  in front of
> others. Who knows? General audiences are far kinder for the most  part than
> are
> harmonica 'aficionados' who come across as so much  more cruel...at least
> by my experiences over the past few years. IF they don't  post their videos
> here to be critiqued, I don't believe anyone else has the  right to bring
> them here for criticism without their knowledge or  permission.
>
> The old saw  'if you don't have anything nice to say, then say nothing  at
> all', sure seems to apply here...
>
> Elizabeth
>
> "Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 11:49:39 +1000
> From: "Billy James"  <billyjames@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Harp-L] YouTube -Pew harmonica  player plays pop tunes
> To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>,  <randy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Ha ha ...the clip of this guys 'version' of  the Lady Ga Ga hit..was...
> indeed 'different'...[for about 30secs].I particulary  enjoyed your Randy
> Singers comment [you are a gentleman indeed Randy]...this  this is a whole
> new
> level of passion. Challenge No.361: now I've gotta go out  and get a green
> screen and learn a bunch of asinine tunes from Sepeltura to the  The
> Pussycat
> Dolls... SPAH is going to really be something 'unusual'  this  year if this
> idea catches on? Does anyone know 'Sexy Bitch' by David Guetta  ?
> By the way, I wonder if he learnt this stuff from:
> http://www.volcano.net/~jackmearl/ <http://www.volcano.net/%7Ejackmearl/>
> The  Clips:
> http://www.youtube.com/motorgrass#p/u/1/AE2XY8rxjf4
>
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