Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Improv



Ken-

Great points, Ken.
Bird probably had a chance to listen to the head before he had to solo and memorized the changes on the spot. I can do that with most roots music, but I know it would be much harder with jazz. Parker really was a musical genius.

-Glenn
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: EGS1217@xxxxxxx 
  To: kenneth.d@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Cc: celticguitar1@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx ; Philharpn@xxxxxxx ; leone@xxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 2:28 PM
  Subject: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Improv


  Ken writes:

  "Martin wrote:
  >"just how does one guarantee finding one's way back to the  melody?"...

  ....Actually, Ken...that was my question....to which Glenn replied earlier..and I was preparing a response to him until I read yours.  You've effectively filled in a lot of the rest of the "blanks" for me. Much appreciated.

  Actually...I already have Glenn's book... but hadn't yet spent any time with it since he specifically refers to diatonics and I'd decided to focus on chromatics for a couple of years because I'm far more comfortable on a chrom and want to play a lot more jazz improv...rather than trying to learn blues or jazz on diatonics simultaneously, though I love the sound of a diatonic and eventually would like to be able to 'make that noise' too.   When the time comes I hope Jason can be my teacher, although there are other excellent instructors around: Dennis Gruenling and Michael Rubin come to mind.

  Even though I do remember some rudimentary music theory from my childhood...I simply cannot connect reading music for the piano to my chromatic.  I play purely by ear and prefer it that way. I've come back to harmonica and am attempting to fast forward after having given up playing completely for 30 years or so.  Am pretty much cramming a lot into a little space.  With everything else going on in my life, I don't have the time or inclination to devote to "study"...at least reading study...if I can hear it often enough, I can absorb it...so I prefer to play along with CD's, Radio or live vocalists, jazz musicians, and the occasional harmonica player.  I can play easily in group settings and hold a tune, but am strictly "no frills", so need to learn to add some technique and style, something I never acquired.  Hope to get some Music Minus One...Hal Leonard CD's...to help me be able to improvise a bit more...I'm definitely melody oriented...and need to work to be braver in front of an audience...but still have stage fright at the mere thought of playing by myself onstage.

    Alone at home I can play things I can't when I'm around other people...though most of those conversations you mention are me having to talk to myself at this point...no other harmonica players within my vicinity, and am rather isolated, knowing no musicians locally either.

  I know what sparks my interest and ear, and whose style I like to listen to (as far as chromatic players go).. Phil Caltabellotta and SmoJoe Leone..and they both leave me in the dust musically and improv-wise, though they've also both been exceedingly generous in allowing me to sit in a bit, at Conventions.  

  Lots of good stuff here from both you and Glenn.  

  Much obliged.....

  Elizabeth
  *****************

  "Ken writes:  

  Glenn Weiser wrote a really great response to this question to which I'd 
  add the following thoughts.

  There comes a point in your improvising skills where you've done so much of 
  it that doing it becomes about as natural as chatting with a friend.

  When you're chatting with a good friend you don't need to force yourself to 
  concentrate, you and your friend are absorbed and your concentration is so 
  pure that you don't even think about it.  (If you or your friend are high 
  on something, this may not apply, but the same is true when improvising 
  music.)  You're making points you didn't even know you knew, sometimes 
  surprising yourself.  You're responding to new ideas with new ideas (unless 
  you and your friend are stone cold duds).  You certainly aren't worrying 
  about whether you're following the rules of grammer - map grammer to music 
  theory in the improv instance.

  But even more interesting, when you're chatting with a good friend who you 
  talk with every week, you aren't repeating your old material (your riffs) 
  because they've heard that all before.  Instead, you're collaborating with 
  your friend in making new stuff, formulating new reactions to stuff, saying 
  funny things that you had no idea you were going to say just a few seconds 
  before you say it, etc.

  In other words, when you've been improvising music for a while losing your 
  thread or your way back to the melody is less and less of an 
  issue.  Whatever you do IS the thread, and the Escher-like staircase of 
  resolutions brings you back to the melody at your pleasure.

  There are of course important ways in which musical improvisation and 
  conversation do not map.  A conversation is not limited to, say, 32 bars or 
  some multiple of same.  But the feeling of a particular progression of 
  chords and resolutions guides you along back into the melody if you have 
  played enough, even if you just barely know the tune you're playing.

  In conversation, you are quite often building to a point, to a payoff, 
  unless you are a dreadfully incoherent person.  You probably know what the 
  point is you are trying to make, and getting there can be alot of 
  fun.  When music is truly being improvised you have no idea what the point 
  is that you are coming to, but the changes are guiding you along, and if 
  they're good changes they're going to force you to make a point no matter 
  what, and the better player you are, the better your points will generally 
  be.  Keep playing, keep getting better.

  All I'm saying is that if you play alot and improvise every day, after a 
  while getting lost is less and less of an issue because it would be like 
  getting lost in your own house.

  By the way, though mere mortals need to know and master the changes and 
  melodies of a piece of music, there's a beautiful story about Charley 
  Parker having been hired to play in front of a big band in DC in the early 
  50's.  The tunes were originals and the arrangements were quite intricate 
  --- and Bird only showed up just before showtime, after rehearsals.  The 
  guys who played in the band said Bird improvised his way through the entire 
  show as if he'd been playing those tunes for years.  Elektra/Musician 
  released studio recordings that were made a few days after the show, I 
  believe, and it's clear that only Bird would've been able to improvise 
  without knowing the tunes.  (It's possible they were actual live 
  recordings.  I only have these recordings on vinyl and I haven't had a 
  turntable in over 20 years.)"
  ***********************************

  Glenn writes:

  "Regarding this, the key to not 'getting lost' is to know (1) what the chord 
  line of the tune is, not just the melody, and more importantly, (2) how to 
  improvise over the "chord of the moment." For this you need to know some 
  music theory, and and it just so happens that the harmonica is a very poor 
  vehicle for the study of theory on a account of it's design. You should 
  learn the scale that relates to the chord of the moment, which degrees of 
  that scale are chord-tones (1, 3, 5, and sometimes others) and non-chord 
  tones, and the eight ways in which non-chords can be used in a riff (passing 
  tone, neighboring tone, appoggiatura, etc).
  That's a lot work. I have explained the whole thing in full detail in my 
  book "Blues and Rock Harmonica," though.

  http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/harpbook.htm

  There's no reason a harmonica player can't learn to improvise like a sax or 
  trumpet player. It's just a question of putting in the effort.

  -Glenn Weiser "
  **********************************








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