Re: [Harp-L] Re: Questions on Harp Positions

[Bob Cohen <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 17, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Winslow Yerxa wrote:

> The positions go around the cycle of fifths through the complete
> chromatic scale, with each position a perfect 5th (7 semitones) higher
> than the last.

Dear Winslow,

Every time I think I've got my hands around this, I find a bit of  
information that further confuses me, in this case "circle of fifths,  
which arranges the notes according to the number of sharps and flats  
each scale has.

Putting your explanation above into action to figure out positions  
relative to a C harp, I drew a circle and put the chromatic scale  
around it and counted five places, beginning with the note after C  
(Db).  E.g., Db, D, Eb, E, F.  Doing so squared with what I've  
memorized up to third position.  E.g.,

Key	Position
----	--------
C	First
F	Second
Bb	Third
Eb	Fourth
Ab	Fifth
Db	Sixth
F#	Seventh
B	Eight
E	Ninth
A	Tenth
D	Eleventh
G	Twelfth


But then, there's the dratted "circle of fifths" which is laid out  
clockwise as,

C, G, D, A, E, B F#(Gb), Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F

According to my understanding, going clockwise from C to F#/Gb  
increases the number of sharp notes by one and that going counter  
clockwise from C to Gb(F#) increases the flatted notes by one.

Where I'm confused is how the "circle" of fifths relates to the  
"cycle" of fifths and figuring out positions.  And also with  
intervals.  I (perhaps erroneously) understand that intervals include  
the beginning note.  E.g., C D E F G is an interval of 5, which I  
thought was a perfect fifth.

Are we talking about similar but slightly different graphic  
representations to visualize positions vs. sharps and flats?  Or is  
there a way to use the circle of fifths to figure out positions?  Or  
am I just missing something altogether?

Bob