Re: Subject: Blues vs classical - was: Re: Subject: [Harp-L] The name "blues"

[Barry Bean <bbbean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry you didn't like my post.

BB

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 20, 2014, at 9:01 PM, EGS1217@xxxxxxx wrote:
> 
> Barry Bean singles out (cutting and pasting) to again make a post of mine come across quite differently than that which I actually wrote. I'd like to clarify this.
>  
> Here's his latest. Following is the post I actually wrote on June 6 with the sole removal of my mention of another person's name and comments.
>  
> "Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:33:16 -0500
> From: Barry Bean <bbbean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Subject: Blues vs classical - was: Re: Subject: [Harp-L]
> The name "blues"
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> On 6/6/2014 10:58 AM, EGS1217@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > What I WAS talking about were musicians who play from their hearts-
> 
> Are there musicians or genres known for NOT playing from their hearts? 
> In my experience, one of the differences between adequate musicians and 
> great musicians is the ability to play from the heart regardless of 
> whether one is improvising alone or playing in a 60 piece orchestra.
> 
> 
> > However--contrary to your experience, I've also met and, as a life 
> > long music fan watched certain classically trained  musicians 'phoning 
> > in' their performances and becoming hopelessly lost without their 
> > sheet music while having no sense of what lies behind the music when 
> > out of their element.
> 
> Let me assure you that I've  played with a great many blues, jazz, rock, 
> country, and folk musicians who have done the same when they were having 
> a bad night. Not every performance is a gem. Some nights you just 
> survive the gig.
> 
> BB
> Mr. Bean. My post was written two weeks ago to make clear that the parts you previously singled out to alter my meaning thereto were explained. Now you're again singling out parts of sentences and paragraphs where I qualified my statements in order to change what I'm actually writing about into something you can find insulting.
>  
>  Following is what I actually DID write, with certain parts removed which aren't salient to this discussion (relative to another poster and deemed Meta by the list owner).
>  
>  
> "From June 6, 2014:
> Mr. Bean, when I posted I made QUITE SURE to qualify my statement by specifying that I was NOT 'knocking' formal music education and said so clearly enough for presumably anyone to understand; perhaps I didn't repeat the salient point sufficiently enough or apologize profusely often enough in advance to those of you who fail to read qualifiers...
> Your statement: "the notion that a blues (or jazz, or folk, or whatever) musician is somehow expressing deeper or more closely held feelings through their playing than players in any other genre is misguided at best, and insulting at 
> worst."
>  
> What?
>  
> Fascinating, but that's not even CLOSE to what I wrote. If you're 'insulted' then the problem is yours since I did NOT narrow it down to any genre or write anything of the sort. Especially since I love, enjoy and play music of ALL types--including R&B, old standards, folk, rock, Smooth Jazz, Pop--anything and everything which catches my fancy and I've written about this MANY times before).
>  
> Except blues--I believe I specified THAT point as well.
> What I WAS talking about were musicians who play from their hearts--even IF they don't use actual instruments (as I'd mentioned earlier in my previous post)--talking about those who began by using their VOICES and their BODIES to make sounds to express their innermost feelings when they had no other way to do so..
>  
> ...their VOICES and BODIES expressing their pain and awful conditions of life. They didn't use harmonicas at all...
>  
>  
> Blues and folk music existed long before people used harmonicas... People sang, thumped on their chests, used spoons on their legs, bones tied together, jawharps, washboards, rudimentary banjos and guitars long before they played harmonicas--so where did [the other poster] come up with 'blowing' as the source of 'blues'?
>  
>  
> THAT was my main point yet your sole focus is my having the chutzpah to express my own personal opinion that this kind of soul-deep music is more expressive to ME than formal music education? Well, shoot me for having a  contrary opinion to yourself but isn't that what this list is all about? Expressing different opinions?
>  
>  
> In NO WAY am I 'insulting' everyone who has a formal musical education. This is a particularly grating charge because I'm personally a huge fan of Robert Bonfiglio--own every one of his CD's and have attended his performances many, many times--have posted at least half a dozen times (both here and on Slidemeister) his playing of The Thais Meditation--referring to it as THE most sublime and heartfelt performance which moves me to real tears each time. I KNOW Robert feels HIS music deeply. I've taken his class at the Grand Canyon. Robert is clearly a proponent of formal music education so why on earth would I make the trek out there from NY if I demeaned formal music education? Michal Adler is another classical harmonicist who affects me deeply and I also was the beneficiary of 'some' formal music education as a child.
>  
>  
> However--contrary to your experience, I've also met and, as a life long music fan watched certain classically trained musicians 'phoning in' their performances and becoming hopelessly lost without their sheet music while having no sense of what lies behind the music when out of their element. I've never seen that happen with ear players although I'll allow for the possibility that it 'could' occur. THAT is what I'm also referring to. It fits other musicians too, including some jazz musicians I've seen who play everything from sheet music and never really 'hear' and who have no concept of 'groove'. I could name a dozen harmonica players who are likewise awful, but I won't since I've never put down a single harmonica player since joining this list. It's not what I do.
>  
>  In fact I don't know many music fans who have NOT seen such 'phoned in' performances, or the resultant confusion/chaos if the sheet music is blown  about outdoors.
>  
> I'm not at all down on classically trained musicians: to my mind the best have both a great 'ear' as well as formal training. I was talking about 'feel'--an entirely different thing altogether and I stand by my original statement: the MAJORITY of people and musicians I've met over my fairly lengthy life who play and 'feel' the music from their hearts and 'soul'--whatever one's interpretation of that word is, TO MY MIND (there's my qualifier again) touch ME far more deeply than anyone who simply plays written notes. Have I qualified this sufficiently now? Am I not allowed to have this very personal opinion?
>  
> I wasn't 'born' when I began posting on harp-l, nor when I listed myself as  an amateur harmonicist. I'll likely always remain an amateur harmonica player  which does not displease me. However, I'm a music aficionado as so many people are--outside of their playing-- and I DO believe my opinion there is as valid as anyone else's. What's particularly odd to me is the rush to attack my single qualified comment specified as being personal to me while ignoring an extremely offensive comment pointed at a whole group of people.
>  
> EGS
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 14:18:32 -0500
> From: Barry Bean <bbbean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Blues vs classical - was: Re: Subject: [Harp-L] The name
> "blues"
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> On 6/4/2014 2:33 AM, EGS1217@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > 'Formal' music education is all well and good--and I'm certainly not knocking it(emphasis newly added by EGS)but to my mind (emphasis newly added by EGS) nothing touches as deeply or beats hearing someone
> > expressing their innermost feelings through their music.
> 
> I grew up on a steady diet of blues, soul, and gospel, and I've been 
> privileged enough to meet and work with some of the world's finest 
> players in the genre (and others). But I have to say that the notion 
> that a blues (or jazz, or folk, or whatever) musician is somehow 
> expressing deeper or more closely held feelings through their playing 
> than players in any other genre is misguided at best, and insulting at 
> worst. I've never met or worked with a good musician who didn't feel 
> what they were playing, regardless of genre. To suggest that improvised 
> genres are somehow "truer" than classical genres is on a par with the 
> suggestion that "untrained" musicians are somehow lesser musicians than 
> classically trained players.
> 
> Crux of the issue: There's a reason Baskin Robbins sells 31 flavors.
> 
>