Re: [Harp-L] 4th tips

[robert mcgraw <harpbob@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Michael is accurate in giving Iceman credit for a

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 2, 2013, at 11:28 AM, "Michael Rubin" <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Larry is accurate about Winslow being correct about myself being right.
> Michael Rubin
> Michaelrubinharmonica.com
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 7:00 AM, The Iceman <icemanle@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> Winslow is correct about Michael being right.
>> 
>> 
>> Not only that, but the below definition is the most focused and concise
>> explanation I've seen to date regarding this harmonica confusion.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 1:29 am
>> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] 4th tips
>> 
>> 
>> Michael is right.
>> 
>> Positions on the harmonica are about one thing and ONLY one thing:
>> 
>> That one thing is the relationship between two keys:
>> 
>> -- The key the harmonica is tuned to
>> 
>> -- The key you're playing it in.
>> 
>> Specific types of scales (major, minor, etc.) are not part of that
>> definition.
>> Key relationships are the only defining elements in harmonica positions.
>> 
>> Now, it turns out that by default, fourth position on a major-tuned harp
>> produces a natural minor scale. But that's not a defining feature of the
>> position. You can create any scale that uses the twelve-tone scale by
>> alternating the pitches of reeds through various bending techniques, or,
>> on the
>> chromatic harmonica, by using the slide.
>> 
>> So in fourth position, you could play a major scale. Or a Mixolydian
>> scale. Or
>> whatever scale you like.
>> 
>> Let me pose a question. If positions correspond with scales defined by the
>> given
>> notes on a harmonica, then what scale does 11th position (Bb on a C harp)
>> correspond with? (You see why identifying a position with the given notes
>> of the
>> harp is problematic.)
>> 
>> Winslow
>> 
>> Winslow Yerxa
>> Author, Harmonica For Dummies, ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
>>            Harmonica Basics For Dummies, ASIN B005KIYPFS
>>            Blues Harmonica For Dummies, ISBN 978-1-1182-5269-7
>> Resident Harmonica Expert, bluesharmonica.com
>> Instructor, Jazzschool for Music Study and Performance
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Michael Rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "Philharpn@xxxxxxx" <philharpn@xxxxxxx>
>> Cc: Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx>; harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 12:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] 4th tips
>> 
>> 
>> Phil,
>> I again disagree.  You can play any position in any scale.
>> Michael Rubin
>> Michaelrubinharmonica.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:34 PM, <philharpn@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>>> I looked over your two posts and probably agree with 105% of what you
>> said.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What possibly makes it difficult to understand is that you're talking
>> head
>>> arrangements. And for some people, this is like doing long division in
>>> their heads.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Basically, 4th position (A minor) is the relative minor of C. In other
>>> words, the A minor scale uses the white piano keys of the key of C.
>> Instead
>>> of starting on the C note; start on the A note and play the white keys
>>> until reaching the next A.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The key to understanding positions is the Circle of Fifths, which starts
>>> clockwise from C (no sharps) and goes up a fifth to G (1 sharp) and then
>> to
>>> D ( 2 #s), then A (3#s) and E (4#s). Most people now agree with the
>> Circle
>>> of Fifths. So much for the naming convention.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What makes this Circle of Fifths theory/explanation problematic is the
>>> fact that due to the limitations built into the Richter layout, some of
>> the
>>> keys in the Circle of Fifths are minor.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What might make 4th position easier to understand is to write on a melody
>>> in standard music notation with harmonica under it like David
>>> Barrett does on his web site and in his dozens of books published by Mel
>>> Bay.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> By having the tab/notation of a song, it's just a matter of playing it
>>> back to understand how it sounds.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Like somebody once said at SPAH, music is like third grade math.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 5:47 pm
>>> Subject: [Harp-L] 4th tips
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   Well Stephen, I almost hate to re-post this.  The first time around,
>> one
>>> of our list members was so confused by it that he emailed me offlist:
>>> 
>>> "Waa....huh....eh....whasthat....umm???"
>>> 
>>>   So I guess my convoluted methodology really confused him.  But it's
>> how
>>> I learned it, so here's my original posts. The first one was kind of an
>>> intro to the subject:
>>> http://harp-l.org/pipermail/harp-l/2010-May/msg00011.html.
>>> 
>>> The second one was actually playing tips, and that's probably where the
>> guy
>>> came to the conclusion I was nuts:
>>> http://harp-l.org/pipermail/harp-l/2010-May/msg00012.html.
>>> 
>>> Maybe he was right.  And it's not a Jimmy Reed sound, though I think
>> there
>>> are some similarities between 1st and 4th.
>>> 
>>> Mick Zaklan
>> 
>> 
>>