Re: [Harp-L] 4th tips

[The Iceman <icemanle@xxxxxxx>]

Winslow is correct about Michael being right.


Not only that, but the below definition is the most focused and concise explanation I've seen to date regarding this harmonica confusion.



-----Original Message-----
From: Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>
To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 1:29 am
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] 4th tips


Michael is right.

Positions on the harmonica are about one thing and ONLY one thing:

That one thing is the relationship between two keys:

-- The key the harmonica is tuned to 

-- The key you're playing it in.

Specific types of scales (major, minor, etc.) are not part of that definition. 
Key relationships are the only defining elements in harmonica positions.

Now, it turns out that by default, fourth position on a major-tuned harp 
produces a natural minor scale. But that's not a defining feature of the 
position. You can create any scale that uses the twelve-tone scale by 
alternating the pitches of reeds through various bending techniques, or, on the 
chromatic harmonica, by using the slide.

So in fourth position, you could play a major scale. Or a Mixolydian scale. Or 
whatever scale you like.

Let me pose a question. If positions correspond with scales defined by the given 
notes on a harmonica, then what scale does 11th position (Bb on a C harp) 
correspond with? (You see why identifying a position with the given notes of the 
harp is problematic.)

Winslow
 
Winslow Yerxa
Author, Harmonica For Dummies, ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
            Harmonica Basics For Dummies, ASIN B005KIYPFS
            Blues Harmonica For Dummies, ISBN 978-1-1182-5269-7
Resident Harmonica Expert, bluesharmonica.com
Instructor, Jazzschool for Music Study and Performance


________________________________
 From: Michael Rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Philharpn@xxxxxxx" <philharpn@xxxxxxx> 
Cc: Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx>; harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] 4th tips
 

Phil,
I again disagree.  You can play any position in any scale.
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com


On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:34 PM, <philharpn@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> I looked over your two posts and probably agree with 105% of what you said.
>
>
> What possibly makes it difficult to understand is that you're talking head
> arrangements. And for some people, this is like doing long division in
> their heads.
>
>
> Basically, 4th position (A minor) is the relative minor of C. In other
> words, the A minor scale uses the white piano keys of the key of C. Instead
> of starting on the C note; start on the A note and play the white keys
> until reaching the next A.
>
>
> The key to understanding positions is the Circle of Fifths, which starts
> clockwise from C (no sharps) and goes up a fifth to G (1 sharp) and then to
> D ( 2 #s), then A (3#s) and E (4#s). Most people now agree with the Circle
> of Fifths. So much for the naming convention.
>
>
> What makes this Circle of Fifths theory/explanation problematic is the
> fact that due to the limitations built into the Richter layout, some of the
> keys in the Circle of Fifths are minor.
>
>
> What might make 4th position easier to understand is to write on a melody
> in standard music notation with harmonica under it like David
> Barrett does on his web site and in his dozens of books published by Mel
> Bay.
>
>
> By having the tab/notation of a song, it's just a matter of playing it
> back to understand how it sounds.
>
>
> Like somebody once said at SPAH, music is like third grade math.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 5:47 pm
> Subject: [Harp-L] 4th tips
>
>
>    Well Stephen, I almost hate to re-post this.  The first time around, one
> of our list members was so confused by it that he emailed me offlist:
>
> "Waa....huh....eh....whasthat....umm???"
>
>    So I guess my convoluted methodology really confused him.  But it's how
> I learned it, so here's my original posts. The first one was kind of an
> intro to the subject:
> http://harp-l.org/pipermail/harp-l/2010-May/msg00011.html.
>
> The second one was actually playing tips, and that's probably where the guy
> came to the conclusion I was nuts:
> http://harp-l.org/pipermail/harp-l/2010-May/msg00012.html.
>
> Maybe he was right.  And it's not a Jimmy Reed sound, though I think there
> are some similarities between 1st and 4th.
>
> Mick Zaklan
>
>
>