Re: [Harp-L] The Future of Blues Harmonica? = New Thread



Interesting comments Mr. Friedman. It has inspired me to create another thread.

And that is my feeling that learning to customize your harmonica (at least at rudimentary levels) makes you a better player. I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

Besides the fact that making a better playing harmonica is obvious. Here is one example that has helped me. I will also offer the disclaimer that I am NOT a virtuoso player by any means. Players like Sam, Jay Gaunt, and Brendan of course totally smoke me. But nonetheless...

I have been building harps for about 8 years I think. At first, I totally stunk at tuning. Yikes. My friend came over and it took us 3 hours to retune his marine band. Now several years later it takes me 20-30 minutes. There is the obvious benefit of having a harp that is in tune, not sounding flat, and saving money on harps. BUT, unexpected benefit is that it has improved my ear. Unfortunately, now I can hear when other musicians are out of tune ha haah

But, my best benefit from tuning is that I have good control over all of the octaves/tongue splits on the harmonica. I can hit the top ones quickly and sometimes get somewhat chromatic/William Clarkey sounds. It is one of my few tricks that make me a little distinctive...and I stress little. This skill was learned by tuning harmonicas everyday for years and constantly checking all of the octaves over and over to make sure there were no beating noises.

Now, this is just one example, I can think of many, but I will let others respond.

Kindly,
Matthew
hetrickharmonica.com


On 9/11/2012 8:56 PM, Sam Friedman wrote:
I agree with your ideas Matt. To clarify, what I meant in terms of the $30 was not more hand-tweaking, as I realize that would up production time (including requiring some real training), but as you say, better mass-production techniques that produce higher quality parts off the bat (the comb flatness being a main one to me). If a harmonica is perfectly airtight and no extra reedwork is done, it will play much better already for the unknowing beginner, and for the customizer or rest of people who tweak their reeds a little, for the most part only reed-work would be required to yield a perfectly beautifully playing harp. If any of these companies invested in such comb-flattening process, I think it would be immediately apparent that their harmonicas are superior consistently. Best case scenario, their sales improve because of that. Even better than best case scenario, the other companies catch on and we have some real instruments being produced across the board.

-Sam

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Matthew Smart <matthewsmart@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:matthewsmart@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    I agree with many of your points Sam. But keep in mind that 30
    dollars is not much when you have a huge production line and
    employees. The cost of machining and assembling all those parts is
    just crazy. You just can't afford to have guys hand tweaking. Now,
    on a harp like an MB deluxe/crossover, I think at that price point
    there should be more tweaks done.

    Here is my opinion on two somewhat inexpensive things that could
    be done to improve harmonica performance significantly.

    1) STOP using self tapping screws. The stainless screws when
    driven in (instead of cutting a threat in the plate) create this
    volcano of metal around the screw hole, cause separation of plates
    and combs and causing a leak. Even though you can't always see it,
    it is there (even on recessed combs like sp20). I am doing a new
    video on this soon. You have to remove this from your reedplates
    or even a great perfectly flat custom comb, won't make much
    difference. I have spoken to most major harmonica manufacturers,
    they don't seem bent on changing their minds to this. Hohner used
    to use brass screws and thread the holes. I imagine that the
    reason that companies do this is that brass is getting really
    expensive and it is cheaper to use stainless screws that are self
    tapping. Brass screws are really expensive. Unless they have
    another major ore find in Zambia, you are going to see the cost of
    brass skyrocket in years to come. Coincidentally, Suzuki threads
    their reedplate holes. I believe they may be the only one. Correct
    me if I am wrong.

    2) Get a lapping machine (for wood/sandwich combs). Almost all
    factory combs are NOT flat. I test them, examine them all day.
    Terrible. Get a good lapping machine, put a bunch of combs on it,
    walk away for an hour or two. Come back and they will be flat as hell.

End result: harmonicas at 30ish dollars would be super airtight.

    IMHO, These two simple, relatively inexpensive improvements with
    all manufacturers would make a smokin difference in performance
    and I think would be the cheapest quality improvements made.

    p.s. As a customizer, I must say that Hohner has REALLY improved
    their slot tolerances in the last year or two requiring less
    embossing on my part.

No offense to anyone intended!

Matthew

www.hetrickharmonica.com <http://www.hetrickharmonica.com>




On 9/11/2012 2:02 AM, Sam Friedman wrote:


        I think one thing that is reasonable to push the companies on
        is innovation
        in manufacturing so that we can expect better OOTB harmonicas
        without a
        large increase in price. The fact is, Matt, I think that the
        guitar analogy
        is a little faulty, just because changing a string and tuning
        the guitar
        don't really compare with the amount of skill (and time)
        required to
        actually do a relatively-basic customization/improvement to
        the play-ability of a harmonica. In any other instrument in
        the world, if
        it was just "assumed" that after buying it half the notes
        didn't work, that
        company would be out of business in a week. I realize that
        this comparison
        is a little faulty because many of the instruments that could
        fill that
        hypothetical I posed would be much more expensive than a
        harmonica.....
        however; I think it is for the good of the entire community to
        have higher
        expectations.

        Personally, I am appalled at the state of many OOTB harmonica
        quality
        consistency. I've bought golden melodies that played (without
        exaggerating)
        worse than any harmonica I've ever tried, and turned into some
        of my best
        harmonicas upon customizing. I realize not everyone overblows
        or any of
        that, but regardless, a well-playing harmonica does something very
        important that I think has a longer-term effect on the
        community as a
        whole. It is easier to learn. When new people pick up the
        harmonica, and
        don't get the feeling that it's a "real" instrument, and can't
        learn the
        basics (bending, etc...) simply largely because the instrument
        plays
        incredibly poorly, then that person shrugs it off and moves on.

        If harmonicas uniformly had a certain assumed quality, then
        beginners could
        actually learn to bend  (among any other techniques, as well
        as the general
        strong connection of self to instrument through breath) quite
        easily and
        instantly feel connected with the soul of the instrument, and
        in turn,
        continue playing it. This, in my opinion, is the key to
        opening the
        instrument up to a larger fan base (aside from getting away
        from the pure
        fetishization of very specific genres for the instrument to play,
        however infinitely beautiful they all are).

        While it may seem unreasonable at first for a company to sink
        money into R
        & D in this capacity, I firmly believe that if the $30-tiered
        harmonicas
        had an actual consistent quality and airtightness to their
        build, in the
        long run people would see many more humans sticking with the
        instrument in
        a real way. The fact is, I wouldn't have learned 90% of what I
        did unless I
        started working on my harps and making them play better. No
        one can learn
        technique easily on any broken instrument, and that's what I
        consider most
        out of the box harmonicas; a broken instrument that needs to
        be fixed to be
        useful.

        People may say that customized harmonicas really only matter
        for better
        players, and that beginners shouldn't need them, but the
        reality is quite
        the opposite. Advanced players can make music on worse
        harmonicas because
        they already know the technique and are in this instance
        adapting an
        understanding to a poorly-constructed tool/harmonica. It is
        crucial for
        beginners to have a good instrument, because it is the fastest
        way to
        actually understand what effect the motions you are doing have
        on the
        instrument and the sound produced. If you are exploring the
        instrument or
        trying to achieve a technique, and you make the motion that
        should in a
        well working harmonica change the sound, but nothing happens
        because of a
        poorly performing instrument, then two things happen; 1) You miss
        the opportunity to learn about a certain embouchure/motion and
        how it
        relates to the sounds you make, and 2) conversely, you learn
        that the given
        motion does specifically *not* produce the desired sound, even
        if it really
        *should* in a working instrument. This works to consistently
        actively fight

        against anyone's attempt to learn or gain joy from this
        instrument. With a
        working tool, however, you get feedback on the (no matter how
        slight)
        effect of every motion you make and every exploration you
        embark on. In
        this way you learn much faster and more efficiently, and have
        real feedback
        as to the purpose and creation of the movements and sounds you
        make.

        For these reasons, while I understand the argument to just be
        "fine" with
        the progression of mass-produced harmonica quality, I don't
        believe enough
        has been done yet as of this moment to warrant celebration. So
        many of the
        new innovations (and I'm not including the sub-30 here,
        Brendan, because I *
        do* believe it is a cool and respectable active attempt by a
        company to

        advance the instrument) that we constantly see from companies
        have very
        little to do with the actual play-ability of the instrument;
        color, comb
        material, etc.... are things we see change every couple months
        with a new
        name slapped on. What we rarely see is a new instrument whose
        selling point
        is actually guaranteed better playability and airtightness.
        This is what I
        think we should be asking for, expecting, and celebrating
        when/if it
        arrives.


Sam Friedman




        On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:32 AM, mik jagger
        <harpomatic@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:harpomatic@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

            Mike, thank you for your review - it confirms my
            "suspicion" that it is a
            version of the xb40 - better or worse is to be determined
            by playing it, of
            course. I'd probably like the smaller size, but as a
            player of xb40, I got
            to tell you that hohner really works great out of the box,
            I love my xb40.
            Good to know that if rumors of xb40's demise are true, we
            have at least a
            somewhat passable option, although the price really does
            not sit well with
            me. BTW, my xb40 in C has years of hard play on it by now
            - it became my
            main instrument of choice, and no performance issues
            whatsoever!
            Mike.



            ________________________________
              From: Mike Fugazzi <mikefugazzi@xxxxxxxxx
            <mailto:mikefugazzi@xxxxxxxxx>>
            To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:harp-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
            Cc: "harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>"
            <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>>; mik jagger <
            harpomatic@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:harpomatic@xxxxxxxxx>>;
            harpomatic@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:harpomatic@xxxxxxxxx>
            Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:46 AM
            Subject: Re: [Harp-L] The Future of Blues Harmonica?


The most noticeable difference is that the it is the size of a standard diatonic. I have a SUB30 in A that I removed the valves on holes 1-4 on and taped of the extra reeds on 1-4 (draw reeds on the top plate). It plays a lot better, but you lose notes on those holes, then. I was ok with that as I was more concerned with the middle and top octaves. The 1 and 4 overblow play well, IMO.

            The more I think about it, it plays like a Special 20 from
            the 90's...like
            right before they switched to stainless steel cover
            plates.  It is a very
            mellow and warm tone (dark), even after heavy tweaking of
            the reeds and
            slots.  The top octave plays well save hole 10, which I
            need to tweak more
            for the blow bends.  I am pleased with how it plays holes
            4-9.  I think 3
            responds well now, but is still a tad stiff.  1 and 2 play
            and bend fine,
            but feel a little soft for me.  I am not sure tweaking
            gaps would really
            solve that.   The new bends on 10 are a lot more like an
            overdraw than
            you'd think, but are easy than a regular valve bend, IMO.

            I like it a lot more than a week ago, lol.  The new bends
            seem to be void
            of any extra noise or issue.  I would like to try it with
            different valve
            material at some point, though.  I will totally play it
            and gig with it if
            given the chance.  I should make it clear that I did spend
            a good chunk of
            time 1-2 hours tweaking it using very advanced techniques
            (beyond just
            gapping and embossing).

            I have tried the XB40, but don't own one.  I remember that
            harp being
            louder and brighter than the SUB30.

            Mike
            On Sunday, September 9, 2012 7:56:07 AM UTC-5, mik jagger
            wrote:
            So how's the "sub 30" different (to the better) from the
            xb40? XB40 has
            all the reeds bending deeper than a halftone (more
            available notes), less
            expensive, and great out of the box, yet not popular
            enough to not be
            threatened by the rumors of its demise...







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