Re: [Harp-L] harmonicas are not guitars

[Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> So let me revise consider the example using an acoustic guitar. Is not the hollow wood body the house of the guitar and a major factor in the sound?

It's the resonator.  The size and shape of the cavity defines how it sounds.  The materials of the back and sides have an effect depending on how they vibrate in sympathy with the chamber--for the most part a dampening effect.  

> Now take those strings and put them on a metal national resonator guitar... Does that not make a difference in sound?

Yes.  But this again has a lot of relation to how strings work and none to how free reeds work.  The resonator acts as the vibrating membrane.  How it is built, the materials used (thicker, thinner, etc...) will have a direct effect.  Because what we are hearing is this membrane moving the air.  There is nothing analogous in the harmonica: what we hear is the reed chopping the airstream.  No membrane moving a resonant body.


> If you made an acoustic guitar from that comb plastic would it really sound beautiful and vibrant?


See the videos.  I don't know enough about different plastics, but nothing about ABS plastic would make me think it couldn't make for a similar guitar.  In any event, how the material might work as a guitar top, back or sides bears no relationship to how it works for a harmonica.


> Why isn't a comb which I think is even a more intimate part of the harmonica as its housing...why wouldn't a denser more quality difference in material make a difference in the performance and sound?  


Because of what we hear and how the sound is produced.  The comb is non-reflexive and inert. The primary thing the material needs to do is create an airtight chamber and be stiff enough so as to not deflect with air pressure.  And ABS combs are stiff enough for that.  You cannot generate enough air pressure to move those walls.  


> It seems very logical to me. Corian is similar in properties to plastic but it is of higher quality and more dense.


I think the idea it's a higher quality is a big part of the problem.  Expense does not equal quality.  Looks do not equal quality.  ABS is a perfectly fine material, it is stable, doesn't deteriorate with time and holds it's shape well.  All of these are very good qualities.  I'd bet most people on this list would consider wood a higher quality material than ABS plastic, but many woods (including those traditionally used in harmonicas) are much worse in the above qualities than ABS plastic. 


> There is a noticeable difference in volume and performance vs stock. I notice it, customizers notice it, customers notice it! 


That could be a product of airtightness.  It could also be a product of chamber size.  It could also be a figment of your imagination:)  I have often fooled myself into hearing differences because of factors related to my knowledge of differences--and have fooled others to test them on occasion (usually they were right, but sometimes just thinking a factor had changed gets them out of their head and let's their ears take over).  The human brain is very powerful, and if you are expecting a difference, you will most likely hear one.  Even if you just know there is a difference you might hear it.

I have a brass combed harp which I would swear sounds different than a similar wood/resin combed harp I have in the same key from the same customizer.  I'd also swear that it feels and responds differently.  But when I sit down and play the two back to back and listen for those differences.  They aren't there.  Even the feel and response isn't there.  It's in my mind--that brass combed harp looks nice, the comb feels nice and the weight is really pleasant, plus it means a lot to me, it is a very special harmonica.  But it sounds the same.  And I was listening for minute differences expecting them to be there.  I am trained to hear minute differences in timbre, pitch and volume, but I couldn't find them side by side.  To this day when I play them individually I'd swear there was a difference, but when I put them to the test, nope.  But I am happier when I play the brass harp (the other is very nice, don't get me wrong) and thus probably sound better on it.


> Do I need to send you one? ; ) grin


Thank you very much, but not right now.  I have been considering getting some of your GM combs at some point to finish out a set I started a while ago, but it's not a priority right now (sorry--someday).  I had a set of acrylic combs made for GMs which Pat Missin worked over for me.  Wonderful harps and I wanted new combs because the plastic of the GM is brittle and I've broken or cracked a few (an example of a plastic I don't like).  So I didn't want to have all that money in getting the harp set up right only to have it ruined by a broken comb.  Also, I wanted them to look special and with the clear acrylic they certainly do.  But they sound like any other GMs worked over by Pat--excellent.

I certainly agree there are very good reasons for different combs than standard, and I hear you make very nice ones.  I just don't think the claims for tonal differences hold up to scrutiny, and the guitar comparison just doesn't work.  It's like comparing an internal combustion engine and an electric motor.  They both spin a shaft and can be used to drive a car, but there are very little similarities otherwise.

Sorry for the length--as long-term listers know this is my version of brief:).



JR Ross