Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop?

[David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Bluegrass in Appalachia and the Ohio Valley is a bit different than it is in Texas and it's really different in California, but this is a universal thing Cara's talking about. My grandfather was of the same general school of thought as Cara about many things, he had specific roles for each instrument and specific roles for specific situations, although I don't recall him ever saying anything about who plays on the 2 and 4 and who does not. He was a HOT mandolin player, I mean HOT, but he didn't always play hot. He played very reserved licks on songs with vocals, his saying was "save the hot licks for the instrumentals." 
I grew up with his bluegrass and my father's, so I'm very familiar with all of that and accept most of them, but at the same time, I added some of my own ideas to what the Payne family was doing musically - I'm the fourth generation of musician in my family - I developed a lot of my own ideas about what the harmonica could do.
When you play a chord with a mandolin, the sound isn't a harmonica and mandolin. It is one sound, that's a bit richer. It works and I've done it for years.
 I put the harmonica on the 2 and 4 beat with the mandolin as a general rule. 
You can hear them together here. This is a pretty good example, because at first it's just me and Roy Clark Jr., then the mandolin comes in later, so you can see how the sound changes. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErqlTrMj3Lc

 
That dude from the Barcelona Bluegrass band also chops, but I haven't seen him play with a mandolin. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnSbMLfG_VE&feature=related


David Payne
www.elkriverharmonicas.com



From: Cara Cooke <cyberharp@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Brian Stear <brianstear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop?
 
Metronome practice is never a bad idea, but live practice is just as
important.

Back up comes in a lot of different ways.  It takes time to learn to feel
what is best at what moment.  Sometimes, not playing at all, is the best
choice.  Watch for those moments and seize them.

For playing "chops", I usually provide this guidance:
In bluegrass, in particular, the "chop" on the off-beat is owned by the
mandolin.
Do not overshadow the instrument that owns a part or you may create
confusion.

If there is no mandolin, then the banjo will try to fill in with its
pinched notes for chops.  The guitar will be heard, too, but, hopefully,
the downstroke on the guitar will not linger too long or there will not be
as crisp a sound for the "chop" as is normarlly desired.  If this is the
situation, continue to keep your "chops" sharp, balanced with the others,
and inside the realm created by the combination of the banjo and guitar.
Remember that the mandolin does this and try to pretend you are simply a
quieter mandolin.

For back up fills, I generally turn to the fiddle.  It can, and
occasionally will, "chop", but fiddlers more commonly provide harmonic
tones and occasional runs/fills underneath it all.  They generally provide
great guidance to common runs and how they can be applied, and often are a
great source of how to tastefully apply them, as well.

Remember, in a bluegrass band, only two instruments can really carry a long
tone: the fiddle and the harmonica.  As a consequence, the fiddle is a
nature guide to how the harmonica can blend and perform in balance with the
other bluegrass players.

Cara

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Brian Stear <brianstear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Been getting into bluegrass and Celtic more....but......I have the darnest
> time playing a simple chop like the mandolin for more than a minute or two
> ( now I know why the mandolin player moved away from me at the last jam
> session I sat in on ).
>   Is this as simple as turning on the metronome, and practicing? Or should
> I just lay out? WWCCD? ( What would Cara Cooke do ).....
> What do you guys do when at a bluegrass jam session?
>
> Brian
>