Re: [Harp-L] positions you can use on diatonic

[michael rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>]

I think your analogy is good.  Except I think it is closer to let's
say positions are roads in a land where the only place to walk is
roads.  Larry says I don't use roads, I just walk how I feel.  I say
you are still on roads.
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Marc Molino <mmolino54@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Michael and Larry,
> May I make an analogy simply to see if I'm understanding this conversation correctly?
>
> Let's say positions are like a road map. You can't drive (play music) and not be on the map somewhere (assuming the map encompasses everything). But you don't have to refer to the map or necessarily keep from jumping from one spot to another on the map (without following the paths that join the streets).
>
> It sounded to me like Larry said, "I don't use the map." And Michael said, "That doesn't mean you're not still on it."
>
> Did I get it right? I'm not putting this out there to make peace--it's much more entertaining when you two disagree--I'm trying to see if I actually understand conceptually what's being discussed.
>
> -Marc Molino
>
>> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:46:11 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] positions you can use on diatonic
>> From: michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: icemanle@xxxxxxx
>> CC: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Yup, as much as you drive me crazy Larry, I am glad you are around to
>> push my buttons and let me know I am still kicking.  But, yeah, this
>> time I still disagree with you.  Just because you feel like you are
>> flying does not mean you are not walking.
>>
>> You should get that koff looked at.
>> MIchael
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:30 PM, The Iceman <icemanle@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > sez Michael
>> >
>> >
>> > <<Larry,
>> > This time I disagree with you.  Is the band playing in a key, at least
>> > for a portion of the song?  Are you using a richter diatonic harp?
>> > Then you are playing in a position.  Position are numbered by the
>> > relationship of the key the band is playing in to the name of the harp
>> > as measured by the amount of times moved clockwise in the circle of
>> > fifths.  No amount of saying "I've moved a little past positions" can
>> > change that you play in positions.>>
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. "This time I disagree with you"
>> >
>> >
>> > uh, (koff) why am I not surprised?? happens so frequently.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2. "No amount of saying "I've moved a little past positions" can
>> > change that you play in positions."
>> > Now you've kinda gone a bit too far telling me what I do. You ain't in my head, brutha, so you don't know how I process.
>> > I don't always play positions. I play notes where they lay. Often I don't think position and when I play this way, it doesn't sound like position. (One of my favorite moments came when I fooled Howard Levy during an Augusta Master Class by doing just this, and he ain't easy to fool, my man).
>> > Then there are times when I consciously do play position in order to get that "positionee harmonicaee" sound.
>> > Anyways, feel free to disagree away. Usually makes for interesting reading.
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: michael rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: The Iceman <icemanle@xxxxxxx>
>> > Cc: philharpn <philharpn@xxxxxxx>; harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Fri, Mar 30, 2012 10:46 am
>> > Subject: Re: [Harp-L] positions you can use on diatonic
>> >
>> >
>> > Larry,
>> > This time I disagree with you.  Is the band playing in a key, at least
>> > for a portion of the song?  Are you using a richter diatonic harp?
>> > Then you are playing in a position.  Position are numbered by the
>> > relationship of the key the band is playing in to the name of the harp
>> > as measured by the amount of times moved clockwise in the circle of
>> > fifths.  No amount of saying "I've moved a little past positions" can
>> > change that you play in positions.
>> >
>> > Everyone,
>> > I learned to play in all 12 positions.  There is a video of me playing
>> > at SPAH with Jimi Lee.  I play a blues and change positions every 12
>> > measures.  It is my belief that currently, not every position sounds
>> > good in blues, so it was more of an exercise.  Each position shines in
>> > at least one style of music.   Some people did not like it because of
>> > intonation issues (I definitely should have used an equal tuned harp
>> > and could spend the rest of my life improving my intonation), some
>> > because I was played lots of notes and I am sure some people felt it
>> > an egotistical effort.  I am cool with all the reasons of not liking
>> > it.  What I hope happened is that it broke the spell of "Only Howard
>> > Levy can do that!"  and changed it to "Michael Rubin did that and I
>> > did or didn't like it, but I know I could do it better than HIM!"  and
>> > it encouraged people to learn how.
>> >
>> > Because of the way we are rapidly learning about the diatonic I
>> > believe that in the near future most harp players will play in all 12
>> > positions and that players will discover ways to make most positions
>> > shine in most styles.  I give it 25 years, max.  IMO.
>> > Michael Rubin
>> > Michaelrubinharmonica.com
>> > http://youtu.be/aCbDxn5a3xI
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 9:19 AM, The Iceman <icemanle@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> Pretty much depends on the individual.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I can, but find certain positions to be not too useful for most scenarios.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In a way, I've moved a little past "position" and just go for the notes that I
>> > need wherever they may live.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: philharpn <philharpn@xxxxxxx>
>> >> To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Fri, Mar 30, 2012 9:57 am
>> >> Subject: [Harp-L] positions you can use on diatonic
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The common rule used to be that there were 6 positions that you could use on
>> > the
>> >> diatonic.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The rest were not exactly useless, just impossible. Then along came Howard
>> > Levy,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Playing 12 positions on one harp, he made the impossible  commonplace.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But still, most people cannot play 12 positions or can they?
>> >>
>> >>
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