Re: [Harp-L] Re: Bell Metal Reeds

[Joseph Leone <3n037@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:37 PM, Lorenbookbinder wrote:

> I am have to disagree with Joe:

And you should. Especially at the voting booth. lol

> Bell Metal is not purely a marketing ploy,

True. But here's the way I see it. Joe Hohner shows up the trade fair in Paris. Someone who must have had at least a modicum of experience with harmonicas..OR wasn't deaf, tried his products and said: "Man, that's some sweet harp dude". Joe Hohner smiles and says: "Yeah, they have bell metal reeds". The judge? says: "Works for me". And then proceeds to award a prize medallion. Joe then stamps the medallion likeness on his harmonicas. :)
Then, as time rolls on, after winning numerous awards at trade fairs, he starts putting the FRENCH quality mark on his harmonicas. The snow capped peak of Mt. Blanc. Which resembles a 6 pointed star. Which is the French quality mark for the highest point in France. Denoting the highest level of craftsmanship reached. 

See, I believe that Hohner made an honest attempt at actually using bell metal, but, I don't think it was possible. Not with the technology of the day.  

> it refers to specific brass/bronze alloys typically used ( these days) to make cymbals and gongs. Also snare drums, and yes, bells. The term is not meant to imply brass from melted down old bells. 

Right. And I never said it WAS from melted down old bells. I think I said something like it wasn't inconceivable that there couldn't BE some bell metal in Hohner's harmonicas. See, back then the technology wasn't precise enough to tell exactly what made up these metals. And I don't think it would have been a serious thought to bring new ingots from Chile, Bolivia, and Paraguay up from So. America just to make sure that the amalgum was precise. It would necessitate pure new metals to be able to reach a 22/78 ratio. And with no spectrograph available...naah, I don't buy it. :)

I had mentioned WWI, and that was supposed to be a tip off. Harmonicas have been around for a lot longer than that, and the metal used was what was available locally. Locally beings Europe. I further believe that the cymbals made today probably ARE made from more precise alloys. In the case of German bronzes/brasses, I don't see any reason why the current metals couldn't actually contain remnants from the Colossus of Rhodes, various statues of Lenin Stalin, whatever, which had either been destroyed or fell over in a quake, or cannon from Napoleon's retreating army,.or..or. :)  
> 
> "Bell bronze, also known as bell metal, is the traditional alloy used for fine cymbals, many gongs and, as the name suggests, bells. It is normally stated to be one part tin to four parts copper, that is 20% tin, and this is still the most common formula. But there has always been some variation. Larger and smaller bells are cast with differing amounts of tin, and some bell, gong and cymbal makers use small but significant amounts of other elements, notably silver, goldand phosphorus.

True, and don't forget the outer orbits of the elements. Some metals join tighter with others because the outer orbit of electrons of one element knit more closely into the outer orbit of the other element according to the number of 'spaces' there are in the orbits. 

> Bell bronze is a two-phase alloy, meaning that some of the tin is not dissolved in the copper grains but exists between them. This makes the metal harder and more brittle than a single-phase alloy, and also affects the way the metal responds to hardening by hammering and lathing, and greatly restricts the use of mechanised techniques of manufacture.

You shure know your stuff. 
> 
> Major orchestras generally use bell bronze cymbals, which are capable of a greater dynamic range than any others."

And they probably weren't made from scrap :) ...especially when you see the cost... yikes. 

jo-jo.... I had better run now..before I get into trouble.  ~(8^')x
> 
> 
> Loren