RE: [Harp-L] Reed Measurements (Request For Information)

[Robert Coble <robertpcoble@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Vern and Smokey Joe,

Thank you very much for providing inspiration regarding reed manufacturing and also
 for sharing your experience and expertise. While my friend is intrigued by the challenge,
I am still more interested in the end product than in the process per se. I also am aware
that (in all likelihood), I will pay a lot more for developing a usable punch-and-die set
than it will ever cost me to buy replacement reedplates from Seydel. I CAN imagine how
difficult the reed making process is. I DO expect the punch-and-die making process to be 
iterative, because of the very tight tolerances required. (Thank you for the specification
of 0.005mm; that gives me a target to specify.) My target reed blank is somewhere 
between professionally made reeds at the factory and handmade reeds from razor blades,
cartridge cases and other esoterica. I'm certainly NOT a "MacGyver" like Smokey Joe, but
if a usable reed can be made by hand, then surely a machine can be made that makes
the process a little easier and less time consuming; THAT is my goal. I do NOT intend to
EVER compete with the harmonica manufacturers economically. In all likelihood, I will
spend my money and time and not get close, but the possibility of "failure" doesn't deter 
me.

I have already done the process of cutting down longer reeds to fit shorter slots AND
polishing the shortened reed to match (approximately) the profile of the required reed.
It's a PITA and very time-consuming but I have done it. I'm not planning to make reeds
for harmonica production; I want to have a means of making reed blanks so that I (and
perhaps a small number of other people) will have a source for individual reed blanks. It
will be up to me (and those possible others) to cut the profile needed into the reed blank.
If all the manufacturers provided a means to obtain individual reeds for any of their harps
(rather than requiring either the purchase of a complete set of reedplates or another 
harmonica), then my foray into this endeavor would definitely be INSANE. Unfortunately,
only Hohner makes individual reeds available (and only for selected models). I understand
the economics of WHY they do not (and likely NEVER WILL) sell individual reeds. I applaud
Hohner for their support; it makes my work as a harp repairman so much easier for most
of the harps I have to work on.

The design of the polishing wheel is modeled (somewhat loosely) on two different designs.
One is the patent for a machine to grind the profile into a reed longitudinally. The other is
the design of machines for making woodwind reeds, with some modifications to enable the
individual reed to be held securely while being "polished" and also to control the depth of
the stroke and the polishing area to a very tiny area of the reed. The basic concept is similar
to the idea of key cutting machines, with the acknowledged SIGNIFICANT difference that
the tolerances are several orders of magnitude tighter. I know that some of the professional 
machines for making clarinet and bassoon reeds can cost anywhere from $500 up to several 
thousand dollars. I expect this machine to cost at least somewhere in that neighborhood to 
build.

Thank you for the "Good luck!" I'm sure I'll need it!

Regards,
Crazy Bob




Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Reed Measurements (Request For Information)
From: jevern@xxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 21:29:18 -0700
CC: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
To: robertpcoble@xxxxxxxxxxx




On May 17, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Robert Coble wrote:I have made reeds, thickness profiling machines, a punch-and-die set for reed slots, and special reed-measuring jigs and fixtures.  My motivation was the challenge to my machining ability and not necessarily to get reeds.  I would not deter you from your project, but I suggest that reed making is more difficult than you may imagine. 
I'm trying to get some punches/dies made for stamping out harmonica reeds.A friend has a tool-and-die shop and has at least seemed interested in the
challenge of making a punch/die set for one of his small press punch machines.
I have to rely on others' expertise-because I have none of my own!

.My initial attempt will be to stamp out reed blanks for Seydel Blues Session harps.Why? Because that's what I mostly play! I want to punch out the general shape
of the reed (and the rivet hole) without any milling of the profile;
Punches and dies for reeds are expensive.  Have you told the shop that you need .005mm tolerances on the punched reeds?  Do not expect to get installable reeds from the first set made.  You may have to iterate the design, making several sets before you are able to punch out exact replicas of Seydel reeds.  That will be expensive.  I suggest that making punches is not the first thing that you should do
I intend to do profiling initially using polishing wheels. .
All reed making procedures that I know of...including my own...cut the thickness profile before the reed is cut/punched to length and width.  There is a reason for this.  Milling on a tiny flexible reed is much easier if you can hold it on more than one side.
It is difficult for me to imagine what kind of polishing wheel you will use and how you will use it.
I know that's labor intensive, but that gives me complete control over pitch and response.
Only if you can measure thickness, pitch and response.  Have you thought of the jigs and fixtures that you will need to check the pitch, stiffness/response, and thickness profile of your reed after removing each bit of material?  
I suggest that you get some junk reedplates and practice shortening and re-profiling the long reeds to work in a shorter slot further to the right on the harp.  I suggest that you hold off on making punches until you are practiced, confident and happy with the results of your polishing-wheel process. 
I am an engineer and machinist.  I have spent hundreds of hours over a period of years making a few reeds.  I never considered my processes completely successful.
That said, I wish you luck.
Vern