[Harp-L] RE: Positions a misnomer and harp Jargon

["Rick Dempster" <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Third is most often played over tunes that have a major IV chord. So on a C harp, you'd have Dmin., G major and A7th. Most people don't hit the major 3rd (C#) of the A7th chord, but just run the blues scale over it, with a C instead of the C#. (Though the A7th chord isn't that hard and sounds good here: Draw bend 1;blow 2, blow 3, draw bend one tone (A) bend 4, blow 5, blow 6, draw 6)
Third can be played over a major blues, but you don't want to emphasise that draw 4-5-6 chord too much, as it will sound 'minor' instead of just 'blue'. Don't forget you can get the major third with a half step bend on 2.
Fifth is just the relative minor of 2nd. I use it in tunes where the IV chord is minor. Blow 2-3 gives you the 1st and 3rd of the I chord, E minor; blow 1-2, 4-5 etc gives the 3rd and 5th of the IV chord, A minor, and the V chord is a B7th, a difficult dominant chord to play as it involves two overblows on 4 and 5 (though you can get the chord at draw 7, blow bend 8 and 9) so I just noodle away at the scale usually.
Twelfth is the relative major of third, by the way, so you are already part of the way there.
RD

>>> "Hellerman, Steven" <shellerman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 31/03/2011 14:31 >>>
I play by ear, quite limited when it comes to theory; but I understand "positons"( i.e, going four keys up.....) and basic technique (straight harp and cross harp). I play a lot of both first and second position (sometimes in the same tune, even) for major key tunes; for minor key tunes I'll play in second, third (managed to figure out on my own what Garry is talking about, I guess; and it's a cross harp technique) and fourth (the relative major: staright harp for minor keys) posiitons. Couple of questions, then:
 
When/how or is it ever appropriate to play in third position for a major key tune? I haven't ever found this to work.
 
Can someone explain fifth position to those of us who don't know much theory (maybe along the lines of what Gary has mentioned regarding third position)? Is it a straight or cross harp type-technique? When would it be appropriate? 
 
And what about this twelfth position I keep hearing about? Again: stragight harp or cross harp? 
 
Also, I understand the advantage that third position may sometimes present over second position (hitting some higher notes and/or octaves, and just sometimes sounding better for a minor key), so what is the advantage of playing in fifth or twelfth position?
 
Best,
SLH
 

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:01:22 -0400
From: Garry <harp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Positions a misnomer and harp Jargon
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx 
Message-ID: <4D93A832.5070907@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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>
> I was at a jam the other night and this player was really struggling
> with minor key tunes.  Nice guy, so we got to talking and i tactfully
> suggested that he might want to try playing minor material in either
> third or fifth position (neither of which is difficult to do) instead
> of staying in second position all the time.  This suggestion
> confounded him and he was resistant to any further explanation.  The
> problem seemed to be that he had no understanding of where any of the
> scale tones were in second position, so the concept of playing in
> another position was beyond his grasp.  As a practical matter, it's
> harder to play completely by ear in other positions because one cannot
> bend randomly and still stay in key like many players are able to do
> when they play in second position.

i found 3rd baffling until i saw a simple suggestion from adam gussow's
videos,
to just start on hole 4 instead of 2 and play like you do in second.
  the first few
holes work, you need to adjust for the 6/7 blow/draw switch, and that's
enough
to get you started.  once i "got it", i worked on figuring out the rest.

but hitting someone who's probably been playing by ear with the theory is
not likely to get him far, so i'm not surprised at your experience.


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