[Harp-L] RE: Positions a misnomer and harp Jargon

["Hellerman, Steven" <shellerman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I play by ear, quite limited when it comes to theory; but I understand "positons"( i.e, going four keys up.....) and basic technique (straight harp and cross harp). I play a lot of both first and second position (sometimes in the same tune, even) for major key tunes; for minor key tunes I'll play in second, third (managed to figure out on my own what Garry is talking about, I guess; and it's a cross harp technique) and fourth (the relative major: staright harp for minor keys) posiitons. Couple of questions, then:
 
When/how or is it ever appropriate to play in third position for a major key tune? I haven't ever found this to work.
 
Can someone explain fifth position to those of us who don't know much theory (maybe along the lines of what Gary has mentioned regarding third position)? Is it a straight or cross harp type-technique? When would it be appropriate? 
 
And what about this twelfth position I keep hearing about? Again: stragight harp or cross harp? 
 
Also, I understand the advantage that third position may sometimes present over second position (hitting some higher notes and/or octaves, and just sometimes sounding better for a minor key), so what is the advantage of playing in fifth or twelfth position?
 
Best,
SLH
 

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:01:22 -0400
From: Garry <harp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Positions a misnomer and harp Jargon
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4D93A832.5070907@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>
> I was at a jam the other night and this player was really struggling
> with minor key tunes.  Nice guy, so we got to talking and i tactfully
> suggested that he might want to try playing minor material in either
> third or fifth position (neither of which is difficult to do) instead
> of staying in second position all the time.  This suggestion
> confounded him and he was resistant to any further explanation.  The
> problem seemed to be that he had no understanding of where any of the
> scale tones were in second position, so the concept of playing in
> another position was beyond his grasp.  As a practical matter, it's
> harder to play completely by ear in other positions because one cannot
> bend randomly and still stay in key like many players are able to do
> when they play in second position.

i found 3rd baffling until i saw a simple suggestion from adam gussow's
videos,
to just start on hole 4 instead of 2 and play like you do in second.
  the first few
holes work, you need to adjust for the 6/7 blow/draw switch, and that's
enough
to get you started.  once i "got it", i worked on figuring out the rest.

but hitting someone who's probably been playing by ear with the theory is
not likely to get him far, so i'm not surprised at your experience.


--
We make a living from what we get,
but we make a life from what we give.
- Kathy Moser