[Harp-L] Electronic Harmonica
I'm no Leonard Chess, but I thought they all sounded good, especially It never hurts to be read y.' Good job.
John
----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 9:24:53 AM
Subject: Harp-L Digest, Vol 95, Issue 15
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: tune the higher notes sharper or lower? (The Iceman)
2. Re: When do get started with amplification? (Richard Hunter)
3. Re: tune the higher notes sharper or lower? (Filip Jers)
4. Harmonica no hands trick (???????? ????????)
5. Re: When do I get started with amplification? (Steve Power)
6. Re: Danny G's Harmonica Party (Splash!)
7. Re: Vacation "Blues" (Tom Ball)
8. Latest Huntersounds RP patch updates sent (Richard Hunter)
9. Re: When do get started with amplification? (Splash!)
10. Electronic Harmonica (davymax)
11. Re: best advice for a new comer? (Splash!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:58:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Iceman <icemanle@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tune the higher notes sharper or lower?
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <8CE08614637832C-20DC-5C02B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If you don't push the higher octaves on a piano a bit sharp (stretching), the human ear tends to "hear" these as being on the flat side, even though, in a textbook sense, they are tuned at proper pitch. Stretching the tuning as you go up into the higher range compensates.
The stiffness in the strings as described by Richard effects the partials of the string. We hear the fundamental tone mixed with the upper harmonics as a single note. There is a mathematical relationship between the two that gives the best note to our ears - based on a formula that looks good in the lab but frequently does not exist in reality. The partials move away from this formula in piano strings because stiffness of the string will shorten the vibrating length. This small change is not so apparent in the fundamental and lowest partials, as it is a small percentage change in relationship to the whole. As higher partials are formed, the vibrating string length becomes much shorter, so a small difference becomes a larger % of the overall length, hence moving the actual breakdown in numbers for this relationship away from the smooth and acceptable numbers in the formula.
A tuner's talent lies in recognizing all of this and compensating with constant compromises in order to create the "least of all evils" final product.
In harmonicas, I do not stretch the tuning going up. I prefer that the octaves sound pure and beat less - not the best arrangement for that dirty blues sound, but more suited to my sensibilities.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2011 4:27 am
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tune the higher notes sharper or lower?
The Iceman wrote:
<human ear can not determine a difference in tones until they are at least 3
cents apart. this is based on info <I learned as a piano tuner and based on
laboratory type testing.
I used to tune pianos for a living. The reason some piano tuners use a
"stretch" tuning (meaning a tuning with the upper octaves tuned slightly above
pitch) is that piano strings exhibit a phenomenon known as "inharmonicity," in
which the stiffness of the string inhibits vibration of the normal harmonic
nodes on the string, making it sound out of tune. This effect is pronounced on
the highest notes on the keyboard, where the strings are very short and under a
lot of stress. (It's also an issue on bass strings, especially when the piano
is small, meaning that the bass strings are relatively short.)
Harmonicas are not subject to this phenomenon, because harmonica aren't stringed
instruments. So I don't see a lot of value in tuning the upper register notes
sharp.
As per previous comment, it might be useful to tune lower notes on the harmonica
up to account for the flattening in pitch that occurs when those notes are
played hard. But I wonder what the chords will sound like afterwards.
Regards, RIchard Hunter
author, "Jazz Harp"
latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
Myspace http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp
Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter
Twitter: lightninrick
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 06:04:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] When do get started with amplification?
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<18535291.1309773884633.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Jacob Fund wrote:
"How far were you in your harmonica adventure before your harmonica
sound was devirginized with amplification? "
Amplification was part of the thrill for me from the very start. It was Paul Butterfield's amped sound on his first two LP records that inspired me to play. I started playing through a mic into an amp as soon as I could.
If your instrument was electric guitar, how long would it be before you plugged it in?
Regards, Richard Hunter
author, "Jazz Harp"
latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
Myspace http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp
Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter
Twitter: lightninrick
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 15:20:21 +0200
From: Filip Jers <filip.jers@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tune the higher notes sharper or lower?
To: The Iceman <icemanle@xxxxxxx>, harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <E485ACC1-64BD-42D8-9F3B-00947536D1B0@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
interesting subject.
i stretch tune on my harmonicas, otherwise i think its sound to flat. but i only stretch the very last octave starting from around high D (hole 8 diatonic C) then up the C hole 10. i also do this on chromatics.
if i base my harmonica around 442, the last high C might end on 445..
i play a lot with a classical trained violinst, in unison and harmony and he told me that those last notes of my harmonicas was way to low. we then compared and play with a grand piano, and
noticed that i had to tune up, but biggest difference was from high G and up. below that it was ok to tune equal to the other octaves. and that was one grand piano, there are many in the world..
if you check chromatic button accordions, in the melody side, they are often a bit stretch tuned, in the very last octave.
i think everyone ears and brains are very different so its very hard to say which way is best to tune.
if it works in the musical situation you are in, then its ok!
4 jul 2011 kl. 14.58 skrev The Iceman:
> If you don't push the higher octaves on a piano a bit sharp (stretching), the human ear tends to "hear" these as being on the flat side, even though, in a textbook sense, they are tuned at proper pitch. Stretching the tuning as you go up into the higher range compensates.
>
>
> The stiffness in the strings as described by Richard effects the partials of the string. We hear the fundamental tone mixed with the upper harmonics as a single note. There is a mathematical relationship between the two that gives the best note to our ears - based on a formula that looks good in the lab but frequently does not exist in reality. The partials move away from this formula in piano strings because stiffness of the string will shorten the vibrating length. This small change is not so apparent in the fundamental and lowest partials, as it is a small percentage change in relationship to the whole. As higher partials are formed, the vibrating string length becomes much shorter, so a small difference becomes a larger % of the overall length, hence moving the actual breakdown in numbers for this relationship away from the smooth and acceptable numbers in the formula.
>
>
> A tuner's talent lies in recognizing all of this and compensating with constant compromises in order to create the "least of all evils" final product.
>
>
> In harmonicas, I do not stretch the tuning going up. I prefer that the octaves sound pure and beat less - not the best arrangement for that dirty blues sound, but more suited to my sensibilities.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2011 4:27 am
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tune the higher notes sharper or lower?
>
>
> The Iceman wrote:
> <human ear can not determine a difference in tones until they are at least 3
> cents apart. this is based on info <I learned as a piano tuner and based on
> laboratory type testing.
>
> I used to tune pianos for a living. The reason some piano tuners use a
> "stretch" tuning (meaning a tuning with the upper octaves tuned slightly above
> pitch) is that piano strings exhibit a phenomenon known as "inharmonicity," in
> which the stiffness of the string inhibits vibration of the normal harmonic
> nodes on the string, making it sound out of tune. This effect is pronounced on
> the highest notes on the keyboard, where the strings are very short and under a
> lot of stress. (It's also an issue on bass strings, especially when the piano
> is small, meaning that the bass strings are relatively short.)
>
> Harmonicas are not subject to this phenomenon, because harmonica aren't stringed
> instruments. So I don't see a lot of value in tuning the upper register notes
> sharp.
>
> As per previous comment, it might be useful to tune lower notes on the harmonica
> up to account for the flattening in pitch that occurs when those notes are
> played hard. But I wonder what the chords will sound like afterwards.
>
> Regards, RIchard Hunter
>
>
>
>
> author, "Jazz Harp"
> latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
> Myspace http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp
> Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
> more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter
> Twitter: lightninrick
>
>
Filip Jers
www.filipjers.com
phone: 0046 768 08 25 50
filip.jers@xxxxxxxxx
www.myspace.com/filipjers
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 16:31:07 +0300
From: ???????? ???????? <npetridis3334@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Harmonica no hands trick
To: "harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <704B5C43-8E7D-4CF0-B4CD-B343A5E3794E@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
How can I play the harmonica "no hands style"?I've seen Ric Estrin do it,and Sonny boy Williamson.I know how to tongue block.Any assistance?
Sent from my iPod
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:53:33 -0500
From: "Steve Power" <stevepower@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Re: When do I get started with amplification?
To: <jeikuman@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <154AB82B5A224E55B05B1AB8D8AA367A@AMD4800>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I agree with Bill. More fun. More better. I might suggest one qualifier about jumping up at jams etc. to try out playing amped. If you have zero experience, a virgin player as you out it, the whole feedback monster will likely bite you in the ass. Not something that will make you friends.
If you happen to know someone who owns a small tube amp and some sort of mic you could borrow, you'd at have a chance to loose your cherry in the privacy of your own home. You'd have the chance to at least work an amps volume and tone controls and see what happens without freaking out the general public. Then you could move on to open jams with a bit more confidence. Jams are good places to try out different mics to see what you prefer, assuming there is a friendly fellow harper or two in attendance. Back in the day I was able to discover that I really preferred the Shure "Green Bullet" over the JT-30. Sort of, "Shall I Fender or shall I Gibson?" Of course, now I like them both for different reasons.
Eventually you'll need something to have at home. There was a small tube Gibson amp someone mentioned on the forum that's going new for all of $99. Looked useful. There's also the Epiphone Jr and VHT which are cheap and cheerful, though they seemed to require messing about with to get the most out of them. If budget permits, my personal small amp favorite are the Kalamazoo Model 1 or 2. Greg Heumann at www.blowsmeaway.com. has refurbished examples, though there is a waiting list. You'll pay a bit more than off of Ebay or whatever but you can be confident it will be a solid amp that can last you forever and will always hold it's value. I've even gigged with my Model 1 on many occasions. You'll get a lot of use out of it.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:20:21 -0400
From: "Splash!" <celtiac@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Danny G's Harmonica Party
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <4917AECA539E4469BE3625E96283BFA9@IBMA30p>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
And the Steak & Seafood Restaurant and Bar!
Oh, save that stool at the end of the bar nearest the stage for me.
When life asks you to jump in...
Splash!
----- Original Message -----
From: "David M Scudamore" Subject:
Dream bigger Smo-Joe, add the landing strip.
---
From: Joe Leone <3n03xxxxxx7@xxxxxxxxxxx>
My dream was always to have a combination campground/marina/motel/general
store/music hall. At which there would be continual entertainment all year.
A veritable 'Smo-Joe-World'. loll
smo-joe
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 07:29:31 -0700
From: Tom Ball <havaball@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Vacation "Blues"
To: <bassharp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <f06240800ca377e5aa06c@[68.6.46.231]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Dear Danny,
You and Lorraine have fun, my friend!
cheerio,
Tom
> To all my friends at Harp-L:
>
> I am currently on vacation with family until mid-July, so am unable to
> maintain/update the Harpers' Giglist, for which I apologize. I expect to
> return home by mid-month July, and intend to maintain the giglist up
> dates from that time on. I look forward to getting my listings updated,
> so please continue sending your updates to me.
>
> Best regards to all,
> Danny Wilson
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:31:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Latest Huntersounds RP patch updates sent
To: "harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>, harptalk
<harptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<10953532.1309789903277.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi all,
I've shipped the latest set of updates to my Digitech RP patch sets to subscribers: a set of four patches designed to create "acoustic" spaces, large and small, plus a copy of my Dark Blue Champ patch, possibly my best (meaning loudest and toughest) amped blues patch to date. It's a cool set for people who play acoustic styles in particular.
My patch sets come with a free one-year subscription for updates, and I supply at least four updates of four new patches each per year. Licensees can update their subscription for another year for $10 once the initial subscription runs out.
So subscribers: Enjoy! And for those who don't yet have my patch set for your Digitech RP, take a look here:
http://www.hunterharp.com/store/
Regards, Richard Hunter
author, "Jazz Harp"
latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
Myspace http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp
Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter
Twitter: lightninrick
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:32:47 -0400
From: "Splash!" <celtiac@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] When do get started with amplification?
To: "harp-l harp-l" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <5B603E1D61734CCAA722E79C0BF50D08@IBMA30p>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
I never had a problem doing both.
My first amplified 'gig' was when I was called up on stage to play harp with
some other musicians who heard me play acoustic harp. Played through a
SM-58 and house PA. I went right out next day and got my own SM-58 and XLR
cable plus a 17ft Shure Xformer cable with 1/4" plug. Still have it all and
I heartily recommend having either SM-57 or SM-58 in your gig bag always
just in case...
One of my original quotes has been:
"If you're not havin' fun, you're not doin' it right."
When life asks you to jump in...
Splash!
----- Original Message -----
"sure, have a little fun but don't forget that the acoustic
> tone is most important first".
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:46:44 -0500
From: "davymax" <davymax@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Electronic Harmonica
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <13108955F5F94F47B3EC628F218C4954@user288ecc6c63>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Here ya go all you big timers. Just kidding, it's my sense of humor and I just have to share.
http://appleton.craigslist.org/msg/2475434010.html
By the by, I was hoping to get some feedback from you guys as to a few songs I put up on www.bandsoup.com
Just type Lil' Davy Max in the search area.
I really do appreciate all comments and thoughts.
Thank you,
Davy
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:49:10 -0400
From: "Splash!" <celtiac@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] best advice for a new comer?
To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <00D9EB103C394995B1326E2C3F604BC1@IBMA30p>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
reply-type=original
All good advice... but know this. Alot of bands play in the guitar
position of E but tuned down a half-step to Eb. Second pos. Ab harp.
And regarding the 600 being low power... keep an SM-57 or SM-58 in your gig
bag. Can't go wrong with either. When needed, I stick one in front of the
side of the speaker cone in my Kalamazoo II (or another of my small 5-watt
Class A amplifiers). Prop the amp up in front at your feet like a monitor
and and run mic to PA. It actually helps with feedback issues because the
mic is facing away from the speaker, unlike having the amp behind you.
And another thing. The Astatic JT-30 mics came with a short wooden "stick"
and a round metal base. Alot of them get tossed aside, They're exactly the
right size for putting a stick mic on and setting in front of a small amp.
Plus, when taken apart it will fit inside the back of the amp along with
cable and mic. Perfect!
When life asks you to jump in...
Splash!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hunter" <
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] best advice for a new comer?
> joe hagins wrote:
> <I have been playing harp for only 2 months (I use a custom wood comb with
> LO plate and Hohner MS Blues covers) <I plan on getting a full setup of
> these and used a Fender Champ 600 and an old EV mic.
> <What I would like to know is what keys do I need to buy to start playing
> with a band (blues/folk/rock)?
>
> Depends a lot on a) the style the band plays and b) the keys the singer
> prefers, with the second factor usually the most important. I've been
> listening to a Creedence Clearwater boxed set lately, and about two thirds
> of the songs are in the key of D, with the remainder split between E and G
> (and occasionally something different, like A or F). You could cover the
> entire repertoire with six harmonicas.
>
> Bands that play stringed instruments like guitar, mandolin, etc. tend to
> favor the keys of E, A, G, D, C--keys on the sharp side of the circle of
> fifths. Bands that play horns tend to favor C, F, Bb, Eb--keys on the
> flat side of the circle of fifths.
>
> So you might want to wait until you're part of the band and can find out
> what keys they prefer before you stock up.
>
> One more thing: A Fender Champ 600 makes a good sound, but it's not a very
> high-powered amp. Can you take a line out from that amp to the PA? If
> not, you may find that it's not loud enough to make you heard with a full
> band.
>
> Regards, Richard Hunter
End of Harp-L Digest, Vol 95, Issue 15
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