Re: [Harp-L] 4th position? or Natural minor tuning?

[GINO <ginoharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>]

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From: Grant Walters <grant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue, June 1, 2010 7:05:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] 4th position? or Natural minor tuning?

Agreed about 3rd more like 2nd and 4th more like 1st (4th gives you great blowbend chops up top). buuuuuut,,,,, the melody in question is Europa. I just tried playing it in 3rd,,,,,NO WAY ! It's more like a gymnastics event than playing music. If you looking for what feels more natural, play the natural minor tuned. You will be playing in 2nd position. How much more natural does it get ? Grant call me. It's super easy. trust me on this one. You know my album I have 2 songs where I play in 3rd. You'll be thanking me later for showing you this. You will sound EXACTLY like I did. and it's simple ! NO OVERBLOWS either ! Gino
> 
> If Gino's using an Eb harp in 4th position and you're using a Bb harp in 3rd then you'll both be playing in C minor but using slightly different scales.  You'll be using A natural (3 and 7 draw on the Bb) where he uses A flat (9 and 5 draw on the Eb).  On their own either way would sound fine but played together they would keep clashing.
You dont want to use a dorian scale on Europa,,,,,maybe,,,,, Cold Shot=dorian/3rd position
Gino
> 
> Minor scales are very fluid in which notes make up their top end.  The first five notes give the scale its minor feel but then there's a bit of a free for all when it comes to the 6th and 7th notes. (In fact when it comes to the melodic minor the 6th and 7th notes vary depending on whether you going up or going down the scale.)
Good analisis. The note that becomes the issue in Europa is "Ab" (the 6 in the scale). This note shows up many times in the melody and is 3 bend half step or 6 overblow,,,,and now hold it ,, in tune ! (if you trying to do it in 3rd)
NO WAY on doing this in 3rd. Again. Please try it on a natural minor tuned harp. Get a Special 20 NM harp from hohner. When ordering just make sure that 1 blow is a "C" note and you will be a happy camper. I'll give anyone who wants it a free lesson on this over the phone. My # is on my website. Europa is a great song to learn because of the 2-5-1 changes in it. Jazz playing 101. Beginners can play this,,,,Like George Zimmer , Mens wherehouse, I guarantee it !
Gino
www.ginoharmonica.com 
> 
> Here are a few of the Cm scales that you might meet:
> 
> Melodic minor (Ascending and descending)  
> C D Eb F G A B C Bb Ab G F Eb D C
> 
> Harmonic minor
> C D Eb F G A Bb C
> 
> Natural minor/Aeolian mode  (Eb harmonica in 4th position)
> C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
> 
> Dorian mode (Bb harmonica in 3rd position)
> C D Eb F G A Bb C
> 
> 
> 
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Patrick;
You got it...it just clashes a bit...
I was trying not to play when he did but it is hard to resist.
to my ear...It is easier to match the guitar lines in 3rd.. but Gino mentioned to me that we of course are more used to playing in 3rd...
In time, maybe I will get the reasoning for not just playing it in 3rd....
Lot's to learn...
Thanks so much for the input...
Stuck in 3rd Gear...
Grant

On Jun 1, 2010, at 2:48 AM, Patrick Killeen wrote:

> 
> 
> I find that the relationship between 3rd and 4th position feels a lot like the relationship between straight harp (1st position) and cross harp (2nd position), with 3rd position feeling more like cross harp and 4th position feeling like straight harp.  3rd position gives you  much more scope for draw bends, so if you're used to playing cross harp this will probably feel more natural.