Re: [Harp-L] Positions are not modes - they are keys with multiple possible scales

[Zack <zack.pomerleau@xxxxxxxxx>]

   I think people think of them as modes just to make it easier, but thanks
for that explanation. Lots of people don't understand that. Certain
positions are just better/more optimal for certain types of music.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Positions are NOT modes.
>
> Positions are keys.
>
> Some of the modes have default modes - the notes you get when you play
> unbent notes. However, this is true only of the seven notes of the major
> scale that are built into the harp. And these scales can be altered by
> bending to create any scale you want in that position.
>
> For the five notes of the chromatic scale that are not built into the harp,
> the position does not have a mode related to the key of the harp. For
> instance, if you play in 11th position (Bb on a C harp), the tonic note of
> the scale is a bend. This does not relate to a mode of the C major scale.
>
> Why is this distinction important?
>
> People do play major scales in positions that don't produce them by
> default, like second and third.
>
> People do play in the positions that don't have an unbent tonic note -
> check out Chris Michalek's work in 11th position, for instance, or Howard
> Levy's work in positions like 10th (Eb on a D harp) or 8th (Db on a C harp).
>
> And yes, people do play in 11th position, and 7th, and some of the other
> extre
>
> Winslow Yerxa
>
> Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
>
> --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Jim Rumbaugh <jrumbaug@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> From: Jim Rumbaugh <jrumbaug@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Modes, keys and positions (breath patterns
> correlated)
> To: "John F. Potts" <hvyj@xxxxxxx>, geoffatkins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 5:55 AM
>
> I gotta put in my 2 cents.
>
> Positions are modes... but then you gotta know what a mode is.
>
> A" beginner" explanation is...
>
> First position start on 4 blow and work your way up the harp
>
> Second position start on 2 draw or 3 blow and work your way up.
>
> Third position start on 4 draw ..
>
> Fourth position start on 6 draw ....
>
> Fifth position start on 2 blow ..
>
> That's enough for now. After you play these for a while, you'll get the
> idea of what they are about.
>
> A beginner should play Summertime in 4th position with the first 3 notes
> 8blow 7blow 8 blow. The tune can then be played with no bends or "tricks",
> but it's high on the harp and lots of guys don't like to play it up there.
> If you use a G harp, you would be playing in E minor in 4th position,
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Potts" <hvyj@xxxxxxx>
> To: <geoffatkins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:43 AM
> Subject: [Harp-L] Modes, keys and positions (breath patterns correlated)
>
>
> > Geoff, You ask the following:
> >
> > OK , really dumb question, please excuse my ignorance, but
> > is a "position" not a physical location, as in:
> > "position your lips to blow on hole 4"
> > but rather the sequence of blowing and drawing as one moves across  the
> harp?
> >
> > Let's take at random say Gershwin's "Summer time".
> > In what position is it best played, on which harp?
> >
> >
> > My answers:
> >
> > I have never been able to correlate a harmonica "position" with a
> physical location on the harp.  I mean, i know where to locate the degrees
> of the scale on which holes in which position, but there's no numerical
> correlation between the designation of the position and  which hole you use
> to start the scale in that particular position.
> >
> > Personally, I would use Fifth Position to play "Summertime"  but a  lot
> of players use Third.  it can be played in either of these  positions.
> >
> > When i play, i will  use First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth and  Twelfth
> positions, depending on which position i need to use in order  to be able to
> play on a particular tune. I am more comfortable in  some of these positions
> than others but I can and do use any of them  as the need arises. However, I
> don't OB.
> >
> > Btw, there are certain breath patterns common to these positions,  which
> are useful to know:
> >
> > The major pentatonic scale in FIRST position is the same breath  pattern
> as the minor pentatonic scale in FOURTH position. Same notes,  same
> intervals, just start on a different hole.
> > The major pentatonic scale in SECOND position is the same breath  pattern
> as minor pentatonic scale in FIFTH position. Same notes, same  intervals,
> just start on a different hole.
> > The minor pentatonic scale in THIRD position is the same breath  pattern
> as the major pentatonic scale in TWELFTH position. Same  notes, same
> intervals, just start on a different hole.
> >
> > So, if you learn these 3 breath patterns and learn the blues scale in
> second position, you should be able to get around well enough in 6 different
> positions to be able
> >
> > improvise if you've got a good enough ear.
> >
> >
> > JP
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> >
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>
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