Re: [Harp-L] II V I

[michael rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>]

Mick,
II V I is generally not a song structure so much as a 2 to 4 bar
passage in a song.  Minor II V I's are much more complex to solo over
and require thinking about a new scale during each chord or thinking
ahead to find common scale tones.

Major II V I's are much easier.  Thinking modally, a II V I in C major
would have the player playing D dorian over the II, G mixolydian over
the V and C major over the I.  All 3 scales use the exact same notes!
This means if you can identify a major II V I pattern, you can solo
using the I chord's major scale over all the bars involving those
chords.

When I first started playing jazz, I would look the chart of the song
over and identify the major II V I's.  I would make a note to play in
C major over this section and G major over that section.  During the
other sections I would use my ear and just feel it, man.  Except for
very complex songs, this method still works for me.

Years later I know many more tricks to playing jazz, but as you can
see by my questions today, I am now ready to further understand jazz.
You probably will see many more questions from me this year.

I believe that everyone can understand jazz, but I recommend everyone
start by understanding the basics of popular music theory.
If you do not understand 1 plus 1 equals two, it is tough to
understand 2 plus 1 equals 3.
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com

On 1/9/10, Mick Zaklan <mzaklan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>   I want to thank everyone for the examples.  I now believe that something
> called "II V I" does actually exist.  I'm not quite clear on whether or not
> it is actually a song structure or some sort of brief transitional device
> within these tunes.  I won't pretend that I understood most of what was
> written in response to my post.
>   That's my problem with music theory and improvising.  If everytime I tap
> my foot during a song, there's a new chord and I have to project a new scale
> in my head to pull from....well, then I'm paralyzed.  Unless it's a slow-mo
> ballad.  I can't think that fast.  And if I could, it would sound like the
> equivalent of a math exercise.  That's why there's a guy on TV now making a
> fortune telling people to ignore or completely strip down the sheet music in
> front of them to the barest of minimums while they're trying to learn how to
> play piano.  Otherwise, they'll never finish the tune and probably will wind
> up quitting the piano.  For me, I'm better off thinking in terms of
> positions, or melody and words in order to follow and solo on these tunes.
> I respect and admire everyone like Michael Rubin who can do it "correctly".
> But after years of bandmates handing me pages of confusing sheet music
> they've written up, I now understand that famous Charlie Parker quotation.
> Something like, "learn all the theory you can; then when it comes time to
> play, forget about it".
>   You know, back in the 80's Howard Levy mumbled something about "the cycle
> of fifths" during my lesson with him and made me improvise while he
> played "Autumn Leaves" on the piano.  It was 4th position harp and whatever
> I hit, fit.  He liked it.  God bless Winslow; but if I had read his
> explanation of what is actually happening in this tune, I'm not sure I would
> have been able to pick up the harmonica and play that day.  It kind of
> reminds me of a story Bumble Bee Bob Novak used to tell about a professional
> dancer staring out of a window and watching a little kid dancing along the
> curb in from of her house.  She turned to her friend and wistfully
> commented, "It took me 20 years to learn how to dance that free.".
>   But I'm not making a case for ignorance.  I do, in fact, envy the
> knowledge displayed by the kind people who responded to this thread.  Thanks
> again.  I'll pass on one of my favorite pieces of musical advice, given to
> me by a saxophonist named Bob Amram.  "There are no bad musical notes", Bob
> used to say.  "Only bad resolutions".
>
> Mick Zaklan
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