[Harp-L] OB-stuff

[Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

All Chris' responses are to things from EV's post.

On the tone of overblows not being the same as bluesharp:

> The best OB guys are not blues guys yet you are making the mistake of
> making trans-genre comparisons in regards to technique

Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  Overblows are a technique, and part of the  
original question seems to me as to whether they fit in a blues  
context or not.  Therefore the tone of overblows in general would  
make sense to talk about in that context.  It wouldn't be a judgement  
on the technique either way (any more than asking if chord-chugging  
in a jazz context makes sense, for example).


> >and b) that it is usually the case that OBs are frequently  
> approximate in pitch,
>
> I say almost every harmonica player on the planet has this issue
> especially when they DON'T know how to OB. Of course there are
> exceptions.

I wouldn't make that distinction, certainly I haven't heard the most  
people most often claimed as great overblowers have any less  
difficulty with this than some others who rarely use the technique.   
I split notes on the diatonic into two categories: naturals and  
accidentals.  Naturals are those notes which are played with regular  
breathing/pressure, accidentals are bends and overbends, ie notes  
created with specific techniques.  The later inherently have  
intonation difficulties simply because their pitch is not preset.   
They also exhibit timbral and articulation differences from natural  
notes (and each other).


> >especially when the player is being overly ambitious and  
> attempting some jazz tune with a lot of changes.
>
> Again, you speaking from a blues perspective which is exactly the
> "mistake" I have been referring to.

Perhaps.  But slurrying ones way through the head of a song or  
changes that don't fit well on the diatonic isn't something I find  
satisfying no matter what perspective I'm listening from.


> . I do however get tired of OB aficionados being incredibly  
> uncritical and defensive about the weaknesses of the technique.  
> It's like they're
> > in denial and take simple observations of fact very personally.
>
> You mean like when we OBers proclaim that blues is simple and most
> harp players suck as musicians?

The blues is a very complex music in many ways.  However, judging  
music by outward signs of complexity or even by a specific (and  
false) group of prejudices as to what is complex and what is simple  
says more about the individual than the genre.  As to most harp  
players sucking part, we might significantly disagree about what  
makes a good musician.


> You're speaking of OBs in blues and I'm saying the best OBers aren't
> blues players so your comparisons are whack from the start.

Completely illogical.  There are some very good blues musicians who  
are also very good overblowers.  We might disagree with our list of  
top notch overblowers, so that might be part of the issue.  However,  
even if that's the case it doesn't mean discussing overblows in a  
blues context isn't interesting or useful.


> There are maybe a dozen guys that really know how to use the OB
> technique so if you're making your judgments based on the 1000s of
> players who are just getting into the technique, even though you may
> be correct your basis for judgment is wrong.

We know the same people, but I think your list is far too exclusive.   
It may have been true a decade ago, but certainly not today (and even  
then, I don't think it was true a decade ago).  I'm also not sure  
we'd have had the same list then either.


> here is a lesson I was giving on a different kind of blues. You need
> OBs to play this kind of blues in Cross harp.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqwIK3FaX_s
>
> EV, could you play harp cross over this and sound good? I can't.

Sonny Terry seemed to make a pretty good 40 year career doing it.   
There are a bunch of others alive today I could also name who can and  
do play in this style without using overblows and mostly using second  
position.  Not to mention people like Terry's contemporary Junior  
Webb.  You may not like their playing, but wouldn't that actually be  
the argument you were trying to make originally, that different  
genres require different sets of judgements.  Or maybe it's simpler-- 
de gustibus non est disputandum.



JR Ross