Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] new Hohner Crossover comments , Message-ID: <200910161331.02527.frank@pimpi.org>

[Frank Evers <frank@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi

Am Freitag, 16. Oktober 2009 schrieb David Godman:

> When you talk about JI and ET tuneings , what exactly are these
>  terms? and what are the differences from the brands ?

JI = just intonation
The notes are tuned in a way, that important chords sound good and 
beatless. This very good when you wanna play traditional Blues with 
lots of chords, splits and tongue effects. There are different kinds 
of just intonation with different pros and contras. The traditional 
Marine Band tuning is called 7-limit-JI, another tuning  preferred by 
some players is 19-limit-JI.
The major flaw about just intonation is, that it sounds good only in 
one key. If you play in different positions you need different harps 
for each positions.

ET = equal temperament
All notes are tuned in right the same interval. This means all scales 
will sound the same in all keys as you would find it on a piano, 
however chords are beating and won't sound nearly as good as with JI.
If you wanna play Jazz, or other music thats based on varying scales 
and you play single notes more than chords you will be happy with this 
tuning. Again there is more than just one kind of ET, however by far 
the most common one is the twelve tone equal temperament (12TET).

Compromised tuning
Then there are different kinds of tuning schemes, that try to make a 
compromise  between JI and ET, combining the advantages and avoiding 
the flaws of both, so these harmonicas are acceptable for most 
players. This works to some point, however if you're playing very 
traditional Blues you might be better with JI, if you wanna play modal 
Jazz you should go with ET.

>  . I do know
>  that Lee Oskars are tuned at 441 and they sound abit brighter !.

I think all harps are tuned slightly sharp today. 

Having tuning schemes today and using electronic tuners doesn't mean 
that you shouldn't tune by ear! It's a mixture of both, you tune with 
your electronic device first, then you check if everything sounds the 
way it should and retune if not.

> I have found that some diatonic harps are better
>  for toungueing than others some harps do not have harmony when
>  "Vamped", please can you tell me why this is ? and which harps you
>  would say are bettter for toungueing than others and why please?.

What do you mean with toungueing (sorry, english is not my first 
language and i didn't find the word...). If you think of some kind of 
tongue blocking technique, then there's not neccessarily any advantage 
from one or another way of tuning your harmonica. It depends what kind 
of music you wanna play, the way i described above.
Lee Oskars and Suzukis are all tuned in ET (now, the upcoming Suzuki 
Manji might be not, Brendan?). 
Hohner's diatonics have different tunings: Marine Band Classic, Deluxe 
and Special 20 have a compromised tuning that's nearer to JI, the new 
Crossover is compromised too, however nearer to ET. The Goldem Melody 
is 12TET.
Hering sells harps with  pure 7-limit-JI (e.g. 1923 Vintage and 6020) 
and i guess some using 12TET, too.
I'm not sure about Seydel, Bushman and Bends.

So if you ask me which harp model to buy i'd suggest to buy the one 
that plays best for you by any means OTHER then their tuning system. 
Then learn to tune your harmonicas the way you want them.

-- 
Gruß,Frank