Re: [Harp-L] Re: TB or pucker - or a bit of both

"Bill" <bill.eborn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> · Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:36:52 -0000

I was probably a bit guilty of that when i started using OBs but I've I 
think I've grown out of it now, my tutors at chichester would have given me 
a really hard time if i hadn't.  On a good day, Rob's a bit like a cross 
between a bass player and a rottweiler. On a bad day....
An exercise I've used a lot that I suggested to a mate of mine who has 
started using OBs and that I've been helping out, is to use the Aebersold 
Dominant 7th workout and switch between the major and the minor pentatonic, 
i.e the Major pentatonic = Root, 2nd, major 3rd, 5th, 6th can be thought of 
as 'bright' and the minor pentatonic Root, b3rd, 4th, 5th and b7th as 
'dark'.  Then you learn to deploy those different colours strategically and 
withstand the temptation to hit the minor third emotive jugular (as i call 
it) until it's really called for.
Anyway apologies for drifting off topic, 28 years ago I walked into the 
music shop in Exeter High Street and came out with a Hohner Blues harp, 
there was a leaflet that came with it with a diagram of how to tongue block, 
i think i looked at it for about thirty seconds and then started using 
pucker to make tooty noises much to the embarassment of my sister who was 
with me at the time and threw the leaflet away (when i went to the Howard 
Levy workshop that Harponline ran in May, Howard said he did exactly the 
same thing, which made me feel good, he did some incredible demonstrations 
of the use of tongue block though). I've been puckering ever since but since 
I've started on the chrom I've been using tongue block exclusively on that 
and now after I've been through the two hours of practice it seems to take 
to get my diatonic embouchure back, I find I'm starting to tongue block a 
bit.  I can't imagine being able to OB using tongue block though, especially 
as for me there seems to be a lot of tongue involved in shaping the note 
when i OB.  But we'll see what happens, after concentrating on playing jazz 
on diatonic for the last couple of years learning to play in all keys 
practicing for three, four, five hours a day I've decided it's probably a 
fool's errand and a surefire route to musical unemployment, if I put that 
much effort into playing the chrom maybe I might actually get a gig.  I was 
playing some country music with some good players a while back but had to 
pack it in because of the demands of my course and having to work to fund 
the thing but I want to start doing that again.  It's country music with 
it's tongue in it's cheek, I not sure that you can be English (and i use the 
word English as opposed to British advisedly) and do country music without 
your tongue in your cheek, we can't wear our hearts on our sleeves without 
irony slipping in.  Stick your head above the emotional parapet and someone 
will chop if off, 'taking the piss' is written deep into our DNA, a legacy 
of the class system probably.   It's done with respect though and maybe also 
fuses this great music with an English tradition that was present in music 
hall in the 19th century, in the Beatles, the Kinks, Pulp, Blur and The 
Streets take on rap and more to the point there's a market.
Anyway sorry about the ramble and I'll have a pint of Old Grot if you don't 
mind thank you guvnor, cheers!
Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <IcemanLE@xxxxxxx>

To: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>

Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 2:32 PM

Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: TB or pucker - or a bit of both
Those that you mention really spent a lot of dedicated time to this
endeavor. Most blues players won't.
The biggest mistake I hear from the level B players getting into OB is 
that

they use, for example, 6 OB not so much to create an interesting line, but

more  to show that they can do a 6 OB.

In a message dated 1/19/2009 8:16:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bill.eborn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
"It's  because the overblows are reedy thin in tone and approximate in
pitch."
...only if you don't practice hard enough, one of things I  had to learn 
when

I started using OBs was to restrain myself from  overusing the 6ob because 
I

loved the sound of it so much and to try and  achieve a consistent tone no

matter how you achieve the  note.
Howard Levy, Carlos Del Junco, Sebastien Charlier, I can't hear  much
thinness and reediness there myself.....
Bill
-----  Original Message ----- 
From: "Drew W" <eviltweed@xxxxxxxxx>

To:  <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>

Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:58  AM

Subject: [Harp-L] Re: TB or pucker - or a bit of both
 Well I think it does, and Wilson thinks it does. On the other hand, I 
just

listened to Rick Estrin on that three-way chat say he thinks  there's no

difference, though he also makes subtle adjustments in each  technique to

mimic the other.
But he also contradicts  that by saying something I totally agree with -

that

you get  a sweet sound with a pucker and a sound that resonates through

 your

whole body with a TB. So, he thinks there's a difference, but  also 
thinks

there isn't. What are we to think if he can't  decide?
What I think (and what I wrote) is that MOST of the  time you can tell 
when

a

guy is puckering or TB-ing, but not  100% of the time. I think you get a

deeper fatter sound when you  pucker the 2 draw than if you TB. I've 
heard

guys do it both ways and  I'm yet to change my mind.
As to your own experiments: we'll  never know because we weren't there 
and

frankly I don't know how you  play and where your at or anything. What I 
do

know is my Little  Walter, Kim Wilson, Big Walter, Steve Guyger and other

CDs

 that I have listened to a million times... so I'll just keep working 
that

groove and trying to figure out why LW sounds like he did it this  way 
one

time and that way another.
Because it's fun.  Y'know?
Anyway, this will never be something we can reach  consensus on. It's 
like

overblowers wondering why the legendary blues  cats don't overblow. It's

because the overblows are reedy thin in tone  and approximate in pitch. 
But

you'll never convince their advocates  that that is true!
(Ducks for cover)

 It does? Funny, it doesn't when I play it. I think this gets to my

 point that often people make assumptions from their own playing  and
generalize it for when they listen to old records. Which is  a
natural thing to do.
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