Re: [Harp-L] Which Hole Number?


On Sep 25, 2008, at 1:12 AM, Arnold Wiliem wrote:

That's exactly what I do!

Had a chat with a sax player with regard to improvisation and filling up a
music. He said that he consciously knows what note that he is hitting.

That's because that's the way horn players learn their instrument. As a general rule, they read music. Maybe not well, but they read nonetheless. First of all, with a few exceptions (alternate finger patterns), most notes are reachable one way. Using something like a 'Belwyn' book, they will blow a note (usually the lowest). They will blow this note maybe 2 dozen times as whole notes. Then 2 dozen times as half notes, then 2 dozen times as quarter notes. Now EACH time they blow the note, they say to themselves something like "Ok, that's G, and I have ALL fingers OFF the keys". Other notes will need mental adjustments depending on WHICH keys are depressed.

Then, they will add another note, and the whole process is repeated. THEN, the notes are jumbled around, so that they are not in a progressive or uniform pattern. After several additions of notes and several combinations of how the notes are jumbled around, the first simple tunes will start to appear. Over a period of time. muscle memory takes over and the mind AND fingers are in unison. The key word here is TIME. Time is what it takes. Some call it practice, but, in actuality, it is repetitious time.

That's probably because Sax's players need to have the scale in mind all the
time, not like in our case that is, we can easily grab the right harp key.

Exactly, not only do we have different keys, we also have DRAW notes. That makes a big difference.

Also, unlike in harmonica, sax's players are able to see their fingerings
(or at least can feel the finger position which is on).

Exactly, harp players are virtually playing blind. BUT, we are going by 'taste'. In other words, our MOUTH gets used to 'indexing' where we are. Eventually, you will be able to pick up a harp all the way from your waist, put it to your lips and hit the note you want when you want. It all comes down to time.

In our case, IMHO
the only clue we have is the note sound... there's no clue where we are..

Your mouth tells you where you are. I can play with a band that is loud enough to keep me from hearing myself, and I am still hitting the right notes. I am going by rote. Rote takes time. It's muscle memory working in unison with your brain.

this is the thing that makes me curious on this issue.. is there any way to
know what note being played just by looking on "physical arrangement" (like
fingering position in sax) ?

No, even if you knew what keyed harp a player was using, the movements are too slight to pick up from any distance. You CAN, however, pick up what a chromatic player is dong if his button hand movements are animated enough for you to discern them. If, however, he doesn't show much movement, it's improbable. I happen to use VERY extreme hand movements. Sometimes running the button off of my right forearm.

Smoe-Joe suggested me to do what clarinet's players do.. But this is based
on the familiarity of the note sound.. well, I'll try that practice anyway..

Three ways to go. You don't necessarily have to read but you tell yourself "Ok, that's HOLE #4...blow". You are training your ear and can then adjust this ear training to OTHER keyed harps. You can also use tab as you have already figured what hole/what breath direction.

Second is to read music and reference everything to C. You tell yourself "Ok, that's hole #4, blow, and it's a C". You are not only training your ear, but you now can play anything as long as you re- write everything to C and THEN use a harp to adjust to the pitch that you want.

Third, a player has played so long (or much) that they can play by osmosis. In other words, notes ooze out from natural experience.

In occasion, a player can adjust IN their head. That's transposing on the fly.

Some chromo players get 'Pitch-Locked' and have trouble playing any chromo other than a C. They pick up another keyed chromo, and after hitting a few notes, get completely befuddled. This doesn't make them any lesser a player, it only means that THEIR ears are SO atuned to pitch that they expect a certain note to be in a certain place. And when it ISN't they get messed up.

I have no trouble switching chromos, use chromos and diatonics on the same tunes, and feel pretty much the same as the 'Jazzman'. After a while, it just comes. One day you'll be playing and lights will come on. All it takes is time. :)

smo-joe



Arnold

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 2:56 PM, jazmaan@xxxxxxxxxxx <dmf273@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:


Not that I'm anyone to emulate, but when I'm playing I have no conscious
idea what hole I'm at either. Maybe subconsciously I know, but its not
something I think about while it's happening. Nor do I have any idea what
the names of the notes are. I can learn pieces by reading, but once I've got
a piece memorized I forget all about the names of the notes or their
corresponding holes.

I don't condone or promote my haphazard method. I envy players who have a
running awareness of every note name and note hole they play. But my
peabrain just doesn't work that way.

Here's an example of a piece I learned by reading sheet music, but once it
was internalized I couldn't tell you anything about the note holes or names:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Thib725Ig

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