Subject: Re: [Harp-L] My case against Harp Depot

[EGS1217@xxxxxxx]

Ken Deifik writes:
 

At 09:18 AM 3/22/2008, you wrote:
>  BBB claim  number-70040953I

"I'm not a big fan of BBB's.  They have no  teeth.  They originated in a time 
when people didn't have the internet  to vent their grievances."
 
....completely agree about the BBB.  But the internet can be a  double-edged 
sword.  People use it for a lot more than simply 'airing their  grievances'.  
Sometimes they refuse to accept they're incorrect or not  right, and use it 
for blackmail. Or simply to trash another person's  reputation.   Is that not 
so?  I can cite a couple of examples if  you need them....

"Just a bit more teeth: let Harp Depot know that you  have posted a couple of 
scathing reports on Harp-l, for all 1500 subscribers  to see.  Send your 
posts along with your note.  Remind them that  they have competition and 
that their competitors have a better reputation on  this list."
 
...Do they?  Not for me.  As I've already mentioned, one of those  
competitors fell down badly in satisfying me as a customer (and I spent a great  deal of 
money...and do consistently, on harmonicas and other materials)...so  those 
others have lost me as a customer, while Harp Depot has my business from  now 
on, since I can buy from them in the flesh, 2 - 3 times a year.  Works  for me.
 
...and he already carboned Harp Depot, as have I in my  posts.  Some people 
seem to have missed that.

"And -  here's the real teeth - that if they refunded your money you will 
post a  mention on Harp-l, because it was obviously all a big mixup."
 
....I don't quite get this.  Everyone (including you, Ken)..is  assuming that 
his recounting of events is entirely accurate.  Why? Most  people retell a 
story to put themselves in the best possible  light...occasionally leaving out 
some pertinent facts. Ever watch one of the TV  'Judge' shows?  Some of the 
Judges are very good at ferreting out the  truths behind the original statements. 
 And why would satisfying him  now, 'fix' the damage he did by calling them 
thieves?  In my humble  opinion, once you've gone to those lengths, you've 
pretty much burned your  bridges. Why would ANY vendor wish to consider it a 
'mixup'...if someone  has already used such over-the-top language?

"I will tell you that  your bad review means that a seriously bad experience 
is registered by all  of us who read it.  Elizabeth's posts even things out, 
and it's a good  thing she posted - but I don't want to do business with a 
company that has a  50% track record." 
 
....thank you for that, Ken.  Clearly you're not among the couple  of harp-l 
'flamers' who barraged me offlist deciding that I had  absolutely NO right to 
recount my long term positive experiences with a company  whose doors I've 
personally seen hundreds of satisfied customers go in and out  of over my 3+ 
years attending SPAH, Buckeye and now GSHC.  
 
I'm not alone....now Danny has posted of his many purchases and  satisfactory 
experiences with them as well. I know we're not alone on this  list.  Perhaps 
some of the other satisfied customers I know who are here  are merely 
unwilling to jump in for fear of being attacked as we  are.  For the record he's no 
'newbie', but a long-term Slidemeister  poster....and someone who was the 
videographer for SmoJoe's videos at last  Buckeye.  But he's a quiet guy who isn't 
going to blow his own horn or make  the same amount of noise as some here who 
jump in despite never having dealt  with Harp Depot.
 
Perhaps what people who post and read this list don't quite realize also is  
that most of Harp Depot's customers aren't internet users for the most part, 
but  the kind of people who save up their money to buy their harmonicas when 
they  attend the conventions and so are not affected by the relatively small 
handful  of grievances aired online, no matter how widely people think they're 
spreading  their message.  AS a satisfied customer, these complaints don't 
affect me  either.  I'll continue to purchase from Harp Depot since I've been 
treated  very well by them, and why shouldn't I?
 
 
 
 "Harp House and Coast2Coast, have 
treated me well 100% of the  time.  The fact that Harp Depot doesn't mess up 
the way they have with  you on every order is not especially 
meaningful."  
 
...It is to ME and all of its other customers, just as your positive  
experiences with your vendors have been to you.  Why isn't one as valid as  the other?
 
You might be surprised to find that your vendors don't all have pristine  
records.  Or is anyone here really so naive as to think they do?   Again..you're 
recounting your personal anecdotal experience.  I'd warrant  there are quite a 
lot of people out there with negative experiences with your  vendors, but who 
don't go blaring them on 'this' list.
 
"The great thing about living in our highly connected world is 
that  online merchants can no longer expect to keep their bad behavior  
private.  And ignoring you for this long is bad behavior and should be  
broadcast here." 
 
....but ...you're assuming that what this person (or any person, for that  
matter) is saying is the absolute truth. Otherwise the 'threat'  of 
"broadcasting bad behaviour" as you put it, can simply be used  to blackmail any vendor, 
can't it?
 
Perhaps what we really need to do...is run a show of hands.  That's  
right...one online, another off.  One, of the satisfied customers who  purchase from 
HD at the conventions...others can be of the people who purchase  from EVERY 
source on or offline..and let's not forget other musicians-  guitarists, 
saxophonists, keyboardists, etc.  After all, most vendors sell  more than 
harmonicas...so let's let everyone in on this.  Let's really do a  'comparison taste 
test'.  You'all might be very surprised by the  results.  Do we have any 
volunteers to conduct this?  You're all so  eager to believe the worst of HD...let's 
see you do the legwork.
 
 How do you know this particular story has legs?  How  do any of us know, for 
that matter?  Frankly, the only way any one of us  can know the truth of this 
matter is to see the order slip, see the number,  talk to the people he spoke 
with at Harp Depot...see the signature he says was  on the money order (NOT a 
check, btw)..he first called it a money order and then  a check - two 
entirely different things, and then compare that signature to  every single employee 
of Harp Depot.  How do any of us know that the money  order even arrived at 
Harp Depot's store and not been waylaid along the  way?  Money orders are 
notoriously not a safe way to do business.   Frankly, if I was going to send a money 
order and not a personal check for that  amount of money in the mail, I'd 
have sent it certified mail, return  receipt requested.....then there'd be 
absolute proof of it having arrived at its  destination, and no question of who 
signed it.  Did he do this?
 
Before labeling someone a thief, one had better be  absolutely sure of their 
facts.  Yet so many people here are quite  willing to believe the very worst 
about these two people, with the barest  of data from someone you don't know.  
I find that  unconscionable.  
 
What if someone called 'you' (the collective you) thieves?  And put it  on 
Harp-L for all the world to see?  Claimed you had a check, cashed it and  
refused to respond satisfactorily to him?  Then 'declared' you a deadbeat  and 
thief, and said you stole from him?  This rises to the level of slander  and libel. 
 It's accusing people of a felony.  
 
What some of you seemed to have missed too..was that I in no way  objected to 
a person 'airing a grievance'.  I had continued the 'grievance'  comment, but 
no one bothered reading or understanding the rest of the  sentence.  What I 
objected to was calling people thieves and accusing them  of such in a public 
forum such as this, so as to possibly affect their  business. A grievance is 
perfectly acceptable, 'grieve' away all you  want; none of my business, and I 
don't much care....but calling someone a thief  is not. Last I looked, if one 
wants to accuse a person of a felony, one has  the recourse of the law, not 
using an online source where a vendor makes his/her  living.   You're missing the 
nuances.  
 
 I wouldn't want to lose 1500 potential customers.  I  
wouldn't even want to lose 15.
 
....Are you a vendor?  A  store?  If so, then of course you  can speak from 
that viewpoint, but I hardly think any of the rest of us should  speak for Harp 
Depot.   For all any of us know they have already  addressed any previous 
complaints they might have received...and the  complainants are simply unhappy 
with the outcome.  Possible? 
 
 I hear people STILL complaining all the time about not being able to  return 
a harmonica they've already played...no matter to whom: local store,  online 
vendor, convention 'store'.  But those are the rules with a mouth  instrument, 
which we all have to accept.

(Frankly, one of the best ways  customers who have had a good experience 
with Harp Depot could show their  support for them would be by letting them 
know that this discussion is going  on in front of 1500 online harp players.)

....On this point I disagree. Why should I?  If a  complainant is having the 
nerve to air such an off-the-wall  accusation here in THIS public forum, then 
I have just as much right to air my  support here as well...and have no 
obligation or duty to pass on someone  else's complaints, if the complainant isn't 
taking it directly to the  vendor in question.  As it is, this 'DaveBass' who 
says he came here  precisely to make his complaint about HD, carboned them on 
his post, as did  I.  I think that's quite sufficient.  Let the disgruntled  
people do their own dirty work.

"It may not be possible to give  absolutely perfect service, but it is 
possible to show your customers that  you are trying your best.  That's what 
customers care about.   Having worked for a busy company that did mail 
order, and having seen how  utterly meticulous and prompt they were about 
resolving problems, I know  that NOBODY is so busy that they can't keep in 
touch with you until a  problem is resolved -- unless they don't want to."
 
....I don't disagree with you at all on this, but again, you're assuming  
they haven't, aren't you? How do any of us know?  Because a few  disgruntled 
customers said so?  I'm afraid I have to have a bit more  'proof' than that.

"In support of my own sanity, I won't be using them  until you announce here 
that they've rectified your problem."
 
....your choice, of course, Ken. I'm only curious if you know  this guy 
personally to accept everything he says as fact?  But I  believe I'll then choose 
to exercise MY right to continue to purchase  from them...am actually planning 
to buy a couple more CX-12 chromatics from Harp  Depot at Buckeye next week, 
and won't deal with your on-line vendors...just to  balance things out.  
That'll make it a bit more fair, in my book.  I  believe it's called 'putting your 
money where your mouth  is'...n'est-ce-pas?  ;)
 
Elizabeth





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