Re: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Popper-esque phenom

David Fertig <drfertig@xxxxxxxxx> · Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:34:14 -0700 (PDT)

Elizabeth, 

I don't see any problem with using an example of someone's playing to discuss methodology, regardless of one's prowess.    

And I don't feel one needs to address the exemplar directly, but there's no harm in it.  I did take your advice and posted some comments on "harmonicasex85" youtube at "12-bar blues".  

Ought one have to prove he or she is both competent at playing AND at recording then posting things in Youtube etc.  Or can criticism stand, or fall, on its own?   

As for style and song preferences, I see nothing wrong with people expressing their taste, albeit one might try to be tasteful in doing so.  For example, I really don't "get" most opera, but I can say that instead of "opera sucks."  Either way the point is made, rudely or not. 

Anyway, Elizabeth, if comments are fair then perhaps it's fair for negative and positive alike.  

And what is this "harmonica sex" thing?  I rarely combine the two myself.

-Dave Fertig
ps If anyone wants to know if I can play come to the Stovepiper Sat. Sept 15 in Northridge, So Cal., 9:30pm, it's free. Even if you DON'T want to know, come, it'll be a good show even discounting my harp.

EGS1217@xxxxxxx wrote:     For what it's worth...when someone posts a YouTube video here...and then  others join in to make comments (especially negative ones) about and  or directly TO the person playing IN those videos...it's completely  illogical  and serves no real purpose if your intent is to "teach" the  player just what he is doing 'wrong' (in your professional estimation, that  is)...since he isn't reading your comments.

 The player in question isn't a member of Harp-L as far as anyone can  determine...he put his videos  on YouTube, not harp-l, and there is a  place ON YouTube right there under each video for comment.   While I  still don't understand (and no one so far has satisfactorily been able to  explain to me) the seeming necessity in the harmonica community of 'some'  harmonica players (out of all other musicians) feeling the need to criticize  other harmonica players, dissecting their videos negatively seems  especially egregious (in my humble opinion).  Did this young guy ask for  your criticisms here?

 As a matter of fact, one can not only post comments on YouTube, but even  post VIDEO comments ..i.e. your own videos...perhaps to counteract his...show  him just how it's done ... (somewhat akin to: putting your money where your  mouth is?)  ;)  How about it?  All those who make a negative  comment...put your OWN video up as proof whereof you speak? I would most  definitely be interested in seeing those!  I'm sure I'd learn an awful lot  from the comparisons of "right way vs. wrong way", since I'm a  newbie diatonic player and need to know these important  distinctions. 

 Posting your dissection of his playing here strikes me as a  bit unfair, since it smacks somewhat of gossiping behind  someone's back...while the gossipee isn't aware he/she is being talked about so  negatively.  Whereas putting your comments right there on his site will at  the very least allow him a counter response and serve to carry the  courage of your convictions, n'est-ce-pas?

 Elizabeth

 P.S.  His specifically described "jazz" version of Stairway to  Heaven (on diatonic, no less)..seemed quite different and unusual enough to give  a listen..and actually triggered an interest in me to try it on Chromatic...but  in no way made me feel the song should be "left alone".   Why?  Who decides when and for how long a song should or should  not be played?  NOW we have "Rock song police"? Geez.

 ********************************

 Message: 11
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:54:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: David  Fertig <drfertig@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Popper-esque  phenom
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:  <701207.31434.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1

All respect to Kiley for his efforts.  3 points  come to mind:

1.  Playing with your mouth.  So many blues harp  players use their mouth, instead of their gut /diaphragm and glottus, to control  their sound, and thus miss tone, depth and smoothness.  

Seems to me  that if one's mouth (save tongue!) is almost neutral as an air conduit, and one  pushes the air from the bottom of one's gut (I mean diaphragm or even stomach),  and shapes the airstream with one's throat (I mean glottus?), deeper tone and  mellower vibrato can be achieved.   

2. Kiley: Too many notes,  man!  Kick back!  How can you pull soul through a note if it's zipping  by at 32 to the bar?   

3. Youtube is an amazing resource,  thank goodness it's indexed and searchable else it would be impenetrable!  

-Dave Fertig

ps: no, I don't get Popper, vive la  difference!

"Emile D'Amico" <EDAmico@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re:  [Harp-L] Popper-esque phenom CC:harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007  16:50:48 -0400 To:jonathan.f.hill@xxxxxxxxx                 Plain Text Attachment     [  Scan and  Save to Computer      ]    

Lots of speed  but lacking in the tone area.

Emile Diggs D'Amico

>>>  "Jonathan Hill" <jonathan.f.hill@xxxxxxxxx> 09/06/07 10:04AM  >>>
I searched through all my old harp-l messages for reference to  this guy, but
didn't see any.

This kid's playing is very reminiscent  of Popper, but he doesn't quite have
Popper's control yet.
I did like his  jazzy version of Stairway to Heaven. Sounds like 3rd position
to me. My ears  aren't
quick enough to discern whether he's doing any overblowing or not, so  I'd be
curious to hear what
others think about that.

Anyhow, his  name is Kiley Barter and here's his youtube  page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Harmonicasex85

------------------------------

Message:  9
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 05:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: martin oldsberg  <martinoldsberg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Re: Popper-esque
To:  harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:  <153879.93603.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1

Well, to each his own (after listening to "Stairway").  That kind of playing tends to give me a headache: he seems short of ideas and  compensates for this with a repeated speed lick and goes on way too long. Also,  as Emile says, not very impressive in the tone department. 
     There are quite a lot of players out there nowadays who can do stuff like that  (sometimes I think I may be one of them) and that at least makes the (diatonic)  harmonica world if not a better place musically, certainly more diversified and  interesting than, say, 15-20 yrs ago.

    But  isn´t "Stairway" one of those songs that should be left alone to rest peacefully  for a generation or two?

  Says,
   Martin

Lots of speed but lacking in the tone  area.

Emile Diggs D'Amico

>>> "Jonathan Hill" 09/06/07  10:04AM >>>
I searched through all my old harp-l messages for  reference to this guy, but
didn't see any.

This kid's playing is very  reminiscent of Popper, but he doesn't quite have
Popper's control yet.
I  did like his jazzy version of Stairway to Heaven. Sounds like 3rd position
to  me. My ears aren't
quick enough to discern whether he's doing any overblowing  or not, so I'd be
curious to hear what
others think about  that.

Anyhow, his name is Kiley Barter and here's his youtube  page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Harmonicasex85  _______________________________________________
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