RE: [Harp-L] C7 +4 ????



Thanks Winslow...and what voicing would you [or anybody else reading this,
for that matter] recommend for, say, the B7+4 [or the Gb7+4] in "Girl from
Ipanema"?
WVa Bob

> All those voicings Bob mentions are possible but produce different
> effects.
>
> C-E-G-Bb-D-F# works and is the default statement of materials. The
> chord is built by adding thirds (C-E is a third, 1-2-3, E to G is a
> third, etc.)
>
> Not that there are several dissonances here, but their dissonant effect
> is minimized in two ways:
>
> 1. They are part of a continuum of thirds - they are "supported" as
> points in an unbroken chain of consonant intervals.
>
> 2. The dissonant notes are spread apart. Instead of being minor or
> major seconds (C-D, D-E, E-F#-, F#-G, Bb-C) they are inverted into 7ths
> (C-Bb, E-D, G-F#) and 9ths (C-D, E-F#).
>
> We could omit E or G or even D and still have a very similar chord with
> not so thick a texture.
>
>>From this voicing you could either do an extreme compression of the
> notes to scalewise statement (i.e., a sequence of minor and major
> seconds), thereby maximizing the dissonance:
>
> Bb-C-D-E-F#-G
>
> (we could add the A and have a 13th chord or a G melodic minor scale)
>
> Or you could spread it way out (in ascending order, all 7ths):
>
> G-F#-E-D-C-Bb
>
> This traverses more than four octaves; it's the sort of voicing you
> might write for a group or for overdubbing, or as a sweeping arpeggio,
> as the reach is not very practical as a block chord for a single
> instrumentalist in real time.
>
> In between, you can spread some things for transparency and minimized
> dissonant effect, and cluster other things for thickness or greater
> dissonant effect (the dissonance is still there but the effect is less
> pungent).
>
> If you voiced the chord C-F#-G-Bb, (1-#4-5-b7) the F# and the G would
> be only a semitone apart, so you'd get stronger dissonance. That isn't
> bad or good, it just creates a different effect that may or may not fit
> in a particular context. If we re-spell the Bb as A#, we see that we
> have a sort of fragmentary chord superimposition. C and G and the root
> and 5th of a C chord, while F# and A# are the root and major third of
> an F# chord. Sort of like having a chord and its tritone substitution
> played at the same time.
>
> If we voice it as C-E-F#-Bb (1-3-#4-7) we're getting the same sort of
> bitonal C/F# chord, but this time with the root and third of both
> chords. Note that this chord has 4 out of the 6 notes of a whole tone
> scale:
> C D E F# G# A#
>
> By the way, another problem with the + sign is that it has several
> meanings. Some people use this for augmented intervals; C+7 would be
> C-E-G#-Bb, a C augmented chord with its augmented 5th. Other folks use
> + for major and - for minor. Or as Michael notes, it can be used just
> to mean "added".
>
> Winslow
>
> --- rmcgraw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>>
>> > I don't know if this helps but;
>> > the + (plus) sign in this case is (wrongly IMO) to mean SHARP (#)
>> 11(4)
>> > not ADD 4
>> > On a dominant chord ...
>> Actually this does help me, if I understand what you're saying...are
>> you
>> saying to play the C7+4 arpeggio as C-E-G-Bb-F#?
>> What about putting the F# in the lower part of the chord and
>> ommitting the
>> E? [thus playing 1-4#-5-b7]
>> Or the G? [playing it 1-3-#4-b7 actually sounds sort of interesting i
>> think]
>> WVa Bob
>>
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>
>
>
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