[Harp-L] Re: music in other cultures/NotMuchHarpContent!

["Rick Dempster" <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Jonathon Ross wrote: "Perhaps the best rule when ignorant of something
is to not say  
anything. "....................Dear Jonathan, I'm speechless! 
RD

>>> Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx> 3/09/2006 4:01 >>>
Rick Dempster wrote:

>                  I was expecting a response something like your's.  
> Yes,
> I am aware that 'old world' music moves on, and in some cases moves
as
> fast as does the change in the US. I would have to go to some  
> length to
> support my original contention; that musical change happens faster
in
> the US than in other places, but I still think it is broadly true,  
> and I
> would even argue that the trends emanating from the US influence,
> directly an indirectly, the rate and sometimes content of that
change.

I think you'd have to run logic circles to find any decent way of  
making that case.  The rate of change in other cultures since the  
20th century is dramatic, and the wealth of examples which completely 

and utterly refute your claim is quite impressive: Brasil, Cuba,  
Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, Mali, Senegal, all of India (we could pick  
regions, but for the example this works), China, Japan, all of  
Europe, Mexico...do I need to continue or can I stop with those I  
know somewhat well before doing more research.  Look at what music  
was being played in these places in the beginning of the 20th  
century.  Then take a look every twenty years.  Compare that to the  
US and I think you'll see a generally similar rate of change (each  
will have a different specific rate, of course, but the overall rate  
will be quite similar).

As to American influence--of course there has been great American  
influence, but that is to be expected considering the dominant role  
the US played in the last century, in political, social and  
technological arenas.  That doesn't mean the US was changing faster,  
just that other cultures had to deal with US culture more than US  
culture had to deal with say African cultures.  Still, we do see  
significant  cross-pollination into the US from several cultures  
(Brasil, Cuba, Jamaica, to name three off the top of my head).  But,  
in terms of the changes mostly they are internally driven, and driven 

by the same forces as in the US: the massive explosion of media and  
transportation technology.  Never underestimate the importance of  
radio and records to musical change in the 20th century--and  
throughout the 20th century.

>                  I think the Dixieland example is different to say,
an
> oud player in southeast Turkestan (sorry;being satirical here to
cover
> my general ignorance)

Perhaps the best rule when ignorant of something is to not say  
anything.  The oud is not an instrument commonly found in the Central 

Asian areas which are usually referred to as Turkestan.  They tend to 

prefer long-necked lutes for plucked strings, similar to neighbors in 

Iran and Afghanistan.

> I believe nostalgia to be more of a phenomenon of
> developed western countries. You might find someone in a village  
> culture
> playing with an awareness to keep alive a tradition, but it could be
> argued that that is a different thing to somebody in LA playing
Cigago
> Blues, or Chicago jazz for that matter.

I'd love to know why you believe this to be the case.  There is  
plenty of what might be termed nostalgia in films from most countries 

that have anything to do with the past.  China is not Western, but  
many Chinese movies show nostalgia--same for India and Iran.  None of 

these three is really "developed" either.  And this nostalgia goes  
back for decades.

Besides, there is a distinct difference between nostalgia and  
attempts to keep traditions alive.  Many dixieland players might be  
nostalgic, but other groups are anything but.  The same is true in  
most cultures: there are those who like older styles for nostalgia  
purposes, and those who want to keep them alive from a tradition  
standpoint.



  ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
`----'



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