Subject: [Harp-L] RE: bending using tongue-block (AKA shut up already, Dennis!)

[EGS1217@xxxxxxx]

Ludo posts my comments and directs these specific answers to me  in his 
Dennis/me/Glenn/Sam/John response:
 
"Elizabeth:  
<< I can't help but find it curious why you continually question  Dennis 
about his ability to detect whether a player is or is not TB'ing? 
 
L:
I don't question his ability at all.
The detection part had to do with bending holes 1-3 solely, a point where  
Dennis has a different experience than mine, and I might add, it is about the  
only detail of the TB vs pucker debates that hasn't been discussed to death (oh 
 no, what am I doing.... ;-))
 
....Actually, Ludo...that question was asked and  answered.  He explained it 
was in the "ear"... His direct quote was,  "Well, as most TB players will tell 
you, once you begin TB'ing and really  use it a lot, your ears get more tuned 
into the sounds & nuances you get  from the TB technique. I can hear that 
with these players...little
things  like tongue-lifts, or pull-offs (where the player will TB a note & 
slightly  pull off his tongue so you hear a chord)...and other similar  nuances
involving tongueing techniques."........

" One  develops an ear sensitive to TB techniques, the more you do it".
  
...And it referred back to the lower notes of the  harp....
 
Ludo:  Another part has to do with the fact that he is one of the very  few 
on this planet that plays overblows with TB; not something you'd ask your  
every day blues player.
 
...Yes I fully understand that....which brings me to my next point which I  
believe you've overlooked ...(when I mentioned "discussion" as compared to  
wanting to be taught on the list)...in that if I decide I want to now learn  
TB'ing and OB'ing I will sign up to be taught (and pay for the lessons of  course) 
from someone who earns their living  providing this information.  Dennis is 
one such teacher.  He  does have on-line classes...were you aware of that?  I'm 
becoming intrigued  by that aspect of it as well since I've had no luck 
finding someone  locally.
 
E:
<< In addition he's a highly respected  teacher......<<
 
L:
Hence the questions!
I don't think I sounded disrespectfull at any point, did I?
 
....that was not at all my implication.  But since he is so respected  I 
wonder why you would not be more inclined to accept his word for what he (with  
his highly sensitive ear and training in this field) hears ....compared to  your 
own admittedly lesser expertise in knowing which of the old masters TB'd or  
not?
 
E:
<< I don't find discussions of it here have or would help me learn  the 
technique....
 
L:
Our mileage varies :-)
Some people can be very accurate in describing certain techniques (that's a  
reply to Sam Blancato at the same time).
 
.....Yes I know ...for some techniques....and I've learned a lot from  this 
list.  Bending, for instance.  Friends from here took  the time to help me 
figure it out.  I followed that up at the teach-ins at  SPAH.  I think our 
"mileage" could be somewhat similar..I'm a quick  study.  I'm just much newer to this 
field than are you,  but I am catching up.  I suppose my thoughts  are that 
when it gets into complicated issues I don't expect teachers to  divulge all of 
their teaching techniques in an open forum like this....when I  can (and 
should) sit down with them and learn hands-on.
 
E:
<< As you've admitted, you don't put in the time necessary to  practice...
 
L:
Untrue.
I admitted not practising TB-OB on a regular basis; I do practise about six  
days a week for at least an hour per day.
 
.....Really?  I practice more than that.  I get into the "zone"  and 2 - 3 
hours have flown by before I've quite realized it.  And of  course it still 
isn't nearly enough to nail the kind of techniques we're  talking about here.  
I've heard a student of Dennis' describe his practice  regimen as laid out after 
his lessons and it was astonishing to me just how good  he was and how far 
he'd come in a relatively brief period of time.  The  quality of the practice 
given by a good teacher is as important as the length of  time put in.   But 
after reading Robert Bonfiglio's descriptions of  the vast number of hours he 
spent perfecting....I've realized I will never have  the sort of dedication the 
"real" musicians have.  Which brings me  to......
 
E:
<<and if one were to pay any attention at all to those who are the  real 
musicians here...
 
L:
Of which I consider myself one!
 
.....well, aren't we all?   But I'm talking about those who are  
Professionals out in the world earning their respective livings playing/teaching  
harmonica.
 
E:
<< I'm not the one questioning Dennis' "ear". 
 
L:
Neither am I; I hope that's cleared.
 
....actually it wasn't clear.  It sounded as though that  was the one thing 
you did keep questioning  in this snippet from your  last post to him:  Ludo:" 
I must confess though, that I don't recall  hearing too much evidence for your 
case in holes 1, 2 and even 3.  The last  couple of years I hardly play a 
bluesrecord anymore, so I might have to  refreshen my listening? If you now of 
any examples from the top of your head,  please pass them on."
 
....it seemed to me that despite Jim McBride saying that he could hear just  
what Dennis had already explained (and Jim by no means considers himself a  
professional)...and Sam explaining that it is hard to be precise about  
embouchure and techniques on the list.... you still wanted Dennis to  provide you with 
"proof" of his statements. 

E:
please do not let his relative youth fool you....he is an old, wise soul in  
a young body.
 
L:
Hey, I'm only 48, that's still young in my book :-)
There are plenty of talented younger people I highly respect!
Dennis included.
 
......that's good.  And rightly so.  He's earned  it.

E:
<<Just for the heck of it....if I do manage to see James Cotton in  concert 
on March 10 << I'll ask him the 
question and post his  response.
 
L:
Great!
Please be sure to emphasize we're talking about bending holes 1, 2 and 3  
with TB; the rest of the harp is very obvious.
 
BTW, Elizabeth, the added bit in the header "AKA shut up already, Dennis!"  
was added by Dennis - tongue in cheek I hope I can presume.
 
...BTW Ludo, I do pay attention to who writes what and yes,  I'm quite aware 
of Dennis adding that to the heading in his response to  you.
 
You did throw in another "extra" comment to me about mileage varying.   
You're right...as does the quality of one's "ear".
 
Elizabeth