RE: [Harp-L] tongue roll - same as tongue flutter?

["MLeFree" <mlefree@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

When I wrote:
> >I personally find the "tongue flutter" an elusive technique.  I'd swear I
> >hear Little Walter and Sonny Terry using these tongue flutters, but then
> >again I have difficulty pointing out a specific example.  Can anyone shed
> >some more light on this technique?  <clip>
> >
> >I don't recall seeing it in your LW/BW or ST "licks" books, Tom.

Tom Ball kindly replied:
> ...To my way of thinking, "trills" are the quick back and forth motion
> between two side-by-side holes.  Personally I find this easiest to do
> by pivoting and wobbling the wrist while keeping the head stationary;

Easier on the old neck, too.  :)

I just tried the wrist-wobble technique earlier this week when someone
mentioned it (you?).  Works great.  I usually shake my head and try to leave
my hands in a fixed position.  Keyword, try.  It's not that easy ~for me~
when I get all wound up a boogiein'...  OTOH, I seem to get a nice clean
trill wobbling my wrists.  Gonna practice it and try it next time I play
out.

As an aside, I'm finding out that one can do much without sliding the harp
over the lips or vice-versa.  The jaw flick is a new and useful tool to me
and I imagine the wrist-wobble trill will be, too.

> ...As to the tongue flutter, I never mentioned it in the LW book because
> LW didn't do it often.

Really?  His was such a delicate touch that I sit for hours dissecting each
and every note.  He's the one where one play through I'll swear it's a
one-hole flutter and then on playback I'll hear a side-to-side trill.  The
Chess compilation "Little Walter: His Best" is a Ph.D. course in blues harp!
And your LW/BW lick book is an essential tool in my ongoing quest to unravel
and comprehend his "stuff."

> Sonny Terry, on the other hand, used it a
> lot.  To my ears it sounds more like he's playing a three-hole chord
> (usually inhaled) and fluttering the tongue very quickly up and down
> (ie north and south) over the comb.  Having said that, Gary mentioned
> (and I trust his ear) that Sonny also tongue trilled side to side (as
> described in the previous paragraph.)

I'm most comfortable with using a 4-hole (left) TB, 'cuz I like to play
octaves from time to time.  Obviously there will be much more exploration
with variations of the TB on my practice schedule.

> Then there is the other method (which you point out above) wherein a
> player lifts and replaces the tongue repeatedly.  This is often used
> as the last note of a song, wherein the player is hitting a 4-hole
> chord, then blocks out the middle two holes, then repeatedly lifts
> off and on, creating a pseudo-tremolo effect.

At a hallway jam at the Denver Harmonica Fest last October I got a 10-second
on the fly lesson in this technique from Ronnie Shellist (an excellent area
blues harper who has the technique nailed).  He called it a tongue flutter,
so that is what I call it.  That brief encounter with Ronnie is what started
me trying to learn to do it and figure out where and how to use it.  I think
it is a very appealing alternative to the ubiquitous left-right trill.

> Unfortunately I am nowhere near my CDs so I can't pick out any
> specific examples of any of these by memory.  But Sonny used the
> flutter technique often -- especially on slow blues where he would
> first play long, swooping, mournful phrases for several measures,
> then suddenly throw in a burst of staccato effects: throat-pops,
> tongue flutters, etc, to great effect.  Among many other examples, I
> do recall him doing this repeatedly on recordings he made with
> Lightnin' Hopkins on guitar for Prestige Bluesville in the 60's.

The more I learn about Sonny Terry, the more impressed I become.  I count my
lucky stars I got to see him waaay back.  I especially appreciate the little
nuggets Gary and you pass along!  And, like your book on the Walters, your
ST lick book has helped me dissect and appreciate Sonny's playing.

And, I knew I needed to expand my Lightning Hopkins collection.  I'll be
looking for that'n.

> Anyhow, hoping it's helpful...

Absolutely, Tom, and many thanks for taking the time to reply!

Michelle