Re: Bb on a C harp...why?

["Mike Curtis" <ironmancurtis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Why would you want to make 11th position play/sound like 2nd?  If we want
something that sounds like second position, we should probably use second
position, n'est-ce pas?

One reason for a "12 harper" to use different positions is, not because we
can make them sound the same, but expressly because they are not the same.
You have different naturals, different bends, and (as you mentioned)
different chords or double stops, many of which don't work.   But it's the
same with 1st & 2nd positions if you're in a minor key - apologies to Rice
Miller, but generally speaking, the chords don't fit.

If you can produce chromatic scales, you have the capability to play in
every key.  However, this does not inherently mean that you CAN play in all
keys.  First, you need to learn the scales and such.  Then you need to learn
the bends, nuances, expressions, and such, so you can express youself in
different positions.

If we want/need to play more complex music, especially jazz and other forms
that tend to modulate midsong, it behooves us to learn positions.  Not
everything is I-IV-V.  Not even blues.  Percy Mayfield wrote some great
blues tunes that went well beyond three chords.  And even the venerable
blues classic Stormy Monday goes well beyond three chords.

> Unless you have completely exausted 1st, 2nd, and 3rd positions then there
is alot more expression and technique to discover in just
> those positions.

I couldn't disagree more strongly.  There are things even a beginner can do
in other positions that simply aren't doable in 2nd position without OBs,
valves, or altered tunings (which IMHO isn't germane to this particular
discussion).  If you want to be a skilled player, take every advantage you
can, .  Never make artificial, contrived rules that restrict your field of
play.  If you want to play like Little Walter, learn to lie very still in a
coffin under several feet of earth (well - that's how he plays these days,
isn't it ;-)

My strongest position is 4th, in which I became proficient long before
second position (because I didn't have lessons ;-)  There are things I can
do there that just can't be touched with 1st, 2nd, or 3rd positions.  Go to
my website http://www.ironmancurtis.com - listen to Smokin' Harmonica, Take
5, and Billie Jean (all in 4th position).  How could these three Aeolian
minor tunes benefit by being played in 2nd position?  And yet I can play all
three of these songs in 2nd position as aeolian minor, because I'm
reasonably  fluid with 11th position - Bb on a C harp - G is the relative
minor of Bb.


BTW some LIVE tunes by The IronMan Curtis BonTemps Blues Band:
http://www.billhouse.com/songs/ironman/WalkingToNewOrleans.mp3
http://www.billhouse.com/songs/YouAreSoBeautiful.mp3
http://www.billhouse.com/songs/ironman/PrettyWoman.mp3
http://www.billhouse.com/songs/StormyMonday.mp3
(and - hint hint - we're looking to tour)

Live video of IronMan http://www.studiocam.org/rplayer/rplayermc56.htm

Health care for blues musicians?  Sign the petition!
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/qd3d2222/petition.html

- -IronMan Mike Curtis http://www.ironmancurtis.com *Southland Blues Magazine
http://www.SouthlandBlues.com TU 8pm jam Starboard Attitude, Redondo pier
Every Sun, 2pm Stagger Inn, 9018 Alondra, Bellflower, except:
Last SUN, LARHA HarpJam, Tia Juanas, Irvine
Wed Aug 20, 7pm Mission Tobacco, Riverside


From: "Roger A Gonzales" <gonz1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

> OK, I would like someone to explain the advantages of playing in the key
of Bb on a C harp.  W.Va. Bob, this has nothing to do with your question
about positions so please don`t take offense but I have to ask this
question.
>
> Let's see.  if you are playing Bb blues, the I IV V7 are Bb, Eb, and F.
OK, the chords are Bb, D, and F.  OK, you can hit all the notes in the chord
on this one.  The IV chord Eb, you have Eb, G and Bb.  You don`t have an Eb
and there is only two places to get a Bb and that is on the 3 draw and the
10 blow.  Horray for the G.  The V7 chord which consists of F, A, C, Eb.
Hey great! I can hit all three but where is the Eb if you want to hit the
lowered 7th.
> If you want to play Jazz on it the most common chord progression in the ii
V I.  The ii chord is a C minor chord which is the Eb which you cannot
achieve on a conventionally set up harp and it happens to be the most
expressive chord tone you have in the C minor chord.
> I have a hard time believing that it is for more expressive playing or to
improve your technique.  Its like trying to paint an entire house with a 2"
wide brush.  You can get the job done but man why wouldn't you want to use
the right tool for the job instead of one that will take you forever and
make your your job a drudgery.
> I love what Paul deLay said when I asked him about playing in different
positions.  He said, "hell I'm still trying to figure out everything I can
do in second position."
> I still am wondering the advantages of playing in these positions instead
of using a harp that will give you more of the notes and chordtones that
will make your playing fluid and the intonation correct.
>
> regards,
> Roger Gonzales
>
>
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