[Harp-L] Comments Baker re CX12 Jazz
Walter Scanlon
Scanlon@xxxxx
Thu Nov 23 14:37:30 EST 2023
Thanks Steve for your thoughts on CX12 Jazz. It’s just that it seems odd that instead of introducing a 16 with the modified cover, Hohner simply modified the cover on the CX12. Had Hohner introduced a CX16 instead of the CX12 Jazz, I would have bought it in a minute! But to spend $350 on the “Jazz” when I already have the CX12 is foolish. Frankly I believe it’s an insult to all harp musicians, professional and non-professional.
Walter
scanlon at xxxxx
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 23, 2023, at 11:22 AM, harp-l-request at xxxxx wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Are My Golden Melodies Too Out of Tune to Be Playing in a
> Band With? (Ken Karpowicz)
> 2. Re: Are My Golden Melodies Too Out of Tune to Be Playing in a
> Band With? (Ian Osborn)
> 3. Fwd: Are My Golden Melodies Too Out of Tune to Be Playing in
> a Band With? (Steve Shaw)
> 4. Howard Levy & Chris Siebold (cr at xxxxx)
> 5. Re: More info on the CX12 (Steve Baker)
> 6. WHO IS IT? (Ron Burton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:56:08 -0500
> From: Ken Karpowicz <karpowicz at xxxxx>
> To: Peter Brunelli <peter.brunelli at xxxxx>
> Cc: harp-l at xxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Are My Golden Melodies Too Out of Tune to Be
> Playing in a Band With?
> Message-ID: <ADFED8DD-4516-4123-BDF1-9D8C6017AC09 at xxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> But when you play blues on harmonica (and I do but only now testing those waters) isn?t one of the characteristics of the sound is that there often is a slight ?out of tune? quality? And, as far as my limited knowledge goes, aren?t many blues tunes played outside of first position? My background is playing Cajun button accordion where it sounds slightly ?out of tune? and most often is played in 2nd position, G on a C accordion. But that sound is what gives Cajun music one of its very unique qualities.
>
> Just wondering what all of you with more experience and knowledge might think.
>
> Ken
>
>> On Nov 19, 2023, at 11:22 AM, Peter Brunelli <peter.brunelli at xxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> ?[swoops in from the aether]
>>
>> This topic has interested me for a long time. Here's the way I think about it: A non-ET (Just Intonation) C harp is adjusted to sound "smoother" in C. But are you playing in first position? If you are moving the tonal center from C you are likely to be out of tune. All those JI adjustments are now in the wrong place. An ET (or ET-ish) harp will have more consistent intervals as you play in other tone centers. That's a good thing. My GM is an oldie and if I had a time machine I would go back and assemble a set of them. It's one of my favorite harmonicas. As a fretless bass player I know it is on me to manage intonation. I'm either succeeding or failing to one degree or another. So is everyone in the band (even the piano). But it is what it is. Play what you like and stick to your guns. Pete
>>
>>> I remember somebody telling me a long time ago on MBH that we choose the
>>> harmonicas we play not because of what we like, but what the band members
>>> like and that they can tell if a harmonica is equal temperment tuned or
>>> not. He said that the members will tell me that my Golden Melodies are out
>>> of tune and that I have to switch to a different harp. But I don't play the
>>> harmonicas I play to please others, but I'm wondering if this is true or
>>> not because I'm going to be playing in a rock cover band and I'm worried
>>> about what their reaction will be if they find out I play those harps.
>>> I've been playing the original Golden Melody since 2020 and I absolutely
>>> love it to pieces. I never noticed any major tuning differences compared to
>>> my Special 20s, but I prefer the Golden Melody when playing blues and
>>> country. The reason why I started playing them was because I grew up
>>> listening to Terry McMillan play the harmonica on country radio. He played
>>> the Golden Melody almost exclusively for most of his career. I prefer
>>> having that wailing sound he had compared to a lot of players and I got
>>> made of for wanting to play in his style for many years. I always try to
>>> prove to people my Golden Melodies actually are good for blues, but there's
>>> always somebody who's going to saying that my opinion is wrong. I don't
>>> know why the original Golden Melody is so controversial, but I love playing
>>> them no matter what genre.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Amy Rister
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 11:23:09 -0800
> From: Ian Osborn <arctys at xxxxx>
> To: Ken Karpowicz <karpowicz at xxxxx>
> Cc: Peter Brunelli <peter.brunelli at xxxxx>, harp-l at xxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Are My Golden Melodies Too Out of Tune to Be
> Playing in a Band With?
> Message-ID: <2C545957-9EC3-48E8-A390-118B4D89E02F at xxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> The thing for me with this topic is that when you play with a band, you are going for overall sound and overall experience for yourself and the listener. If what you play sounds off to the overall sound that the band is trying to achieve then you truly aren?t meshing as a band. Sticking to your guns is fine, but you aren?t a solo act.
>
> The same would go for any instrument I would say.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ian
>
>> On Nov 19, 2023, at 9:56 AM, Ken Karpowicz <karpowicz at xxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> ?But when you play blues on harmonica (and I do but only now testing those waters) isn?t one of the characteristics of the sound is that there often is a slight ?out of tune? quality? And, as far as my limited knowledge goes, aren?t many blues tunes played outside of first position? My background is playing Cajun button accordion where it sounds slightly ?out of tune? and most often is played in 2nd position, G on a C accordion. But that sound is what gives Cajun music one of its very unique qualities.
>>
>> Just wondering what all of you with more experience and knowledge might think.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>>> On Nov 19, 2023, at 11:22 AM, Peter Brunelli <peter.brunelli at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?[swoops in from the aether]
>>>
>>> This topic has interested me for a long time. Here's the way I think about it: A non-ET (Just Intonation) C harp is adjusted to sound "smoother" in C. But are you playing in first position? If you are moving the tonal center from C you are likely to be out of tune. All those JI adjustments are now in the wrong place. An ET (or ET-ish) harp will have more consistent intervals as you play in other tone centers. That's a good thing. My GM is an oldie and if I had a time machine I would go back and assemble a set of them. It's one of my favorite harmonicas. As a fretless bass player I know it is on me to manage intonation. I'm either succeeding or failing to one degree or another. So is everyone in the band (even the piano). But it is what it is. Play what you like and stick to your guns. Pete
>>>
>>>> I remember somebody telling me a long time ago on MBH that we choose the
>>>> harmonicas we play not because of what we like, but what the band members
>>>> like and that they can tell if a harmonica is equal temperment tuned or
>>>> not. He said that the members will tell me that my Golden Melodies are out
>>>> of tune and that I have to switch to a different harp. But I don't play the
>>>> harmonicas I play to please others, but I'm wondering if this is true or
>>>> not because I'm going to be playing in a rock cover band and I'm worried
>>>> about what their reaction will be if they find out I play those harps.
>>>> I've been playing the original Golden Melody since 2020 and I absolutely
>>>> love it to pieces. I never noticed any major tuning differences compared to
>>>> my Special 20s, but I prefer the Golden Melody when playing blues and
>>>> country. The reason why I started playing them was because I grew up
>>>> listening to Terry McMillan play the harmonica on country radio. He played
>>>> the Golden Melody almost exclusively for most of his career. I prefer
>>>> having that wailing sound he had compared to a lot of players and I got
>>>> made of for wanting to play in his style for many years. I always try to
>>>> prove to people my Golden Melodies actually are good for blues, but there's
>>>> always somebody who's going to saying that my opinion is wrong. I don't
>>>> know why the original Golden Melody is so controversial, but I love playing
>>>> them no matter what genre.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Amy Rister
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 20:54:03 +0000
> From: Steve Shaw <moorcot at xxxxx>
> To: harp-l harp-l <harp-l at xxxxx>
> Subject: [Harp-L] Fwd: Are My Golden Melodies Too Out of Tune to Be
> Playing in a Band With?
> Message-ID:
> <DBAP193MB0857D08338E376B07A9176C4A2B5A at xxxxx>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Steve Shaw <moorcot at xxxxx>
> Date: 19 November 2023 at 13:01:48 GMT
> To: Eric Nielsen <ericbarnak at xxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Are My Golden Melodies Too Out of Tune to Be Playing in a Band With?
>
> Sorry, I sent this to Eric only, not quite what I'd intended!
>
> ?On 19 Nov 2023, at 10:02, Eric Nielsen <ericbarnak at xxxxx> wrote:
>
> ?(Most) guitars and pianos are equal-tempered, too.
>
> On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 1:39 AM Amy Rister <amyrister02 at xxxxx> wrote:
>
> "I remember somebody telling me a long time ago on MBH that we choose the
> harmonicas we play not because of what we like, but what the band members
> like and that they can tell if a harmonica is equal temperment tuned or
> not. He said that the members will tell me that my Golden Melodies are
> out
> of tune and that I have to switch to a different harp. But I don't play
> the
> harmonicas I play to please others...."
>
> My go-to harps have been Suzuki Promasters and Special 20s for decades. The Promasters are in equal temperament whereas the SP20s are something in between equal and just. I always fine-tune my SP20s to equal because I play mostly single-note tunes (Irish!) and don't worry too much about what my occasional chords sound like (chords not sounding great is a disadvantage of equal), but I do worry about some notes sounding a bit sharp or flat to my ear, and what Eric said. I did an experiment once: I used an unaltered SP20 in our session and recorded us for the whole evening with my little minidisc recorder. In the pub whilst playing I heard all those mildly distressing "out of tune" notes - but I couldn't detect them at all when I listened back at home. So I'd stick with the harps that please you most and I'd guess that most people would enjoy your playing and would desist from nit-picking!
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 17:54:46 -0600
> From: "cr at xxxxx" <cr at xxxxx>
> To: harp-l at xxxxx
> Subject: [Harp-L] Howard Levy & Chris Siebold
> Message-ID: <7331DA64-A489-4A60-895F-C6F6177C2E8A at xxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I got to see Howard Levy & Chris Siebold in Stevens Point, WI on Thursday (between weekend Chicago gigs).
>
> They were amazing! If you have a chance, you should see them.
>
>
> C.R. Marshall
>
> ????
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:58:29 +0100
> From: Steve Baker <booking at xxxxx>
> To: Scanlon at xxxxx
> Cc: Harp-L <harp-l at xxxxx>, George Miklas <harmonicat at xxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] More info on the CX12
> Message-ID: <9A804098-AC19-4BA7-9379-91FCF8F26F24 at xxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Walter wrote:
>
> The fact the Hohner added, ?Jazz? to the name of their modified CX12 instead of creating a CX16 leaves me to believe Hohner has an excess of CX12?s in stock and just added a modified cover.
>
> Sorry Walter, that?s not in any way the case. Do you know how expensive it is to design, tool up and build a mouthpiece like that? As George says, this was done in response to customer requests.
>
> Steve Baker
> www.stevebaker.de
> www.harmonica-masters.de
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2023 16:21:55 +0000
> From: Ron Burton <aussierwb at xxxxx>
> To: Harp-L <harp-l at xxxxx>
> Subject: [Harp-L] WHO IS IT?
> Message-ID:
> <SA1P221MB10200CBB1DF0DADE4E92D8CAB0B9A at xxxxx>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> In 1979, a group called DELIVERANCE had a one-hit wonder called "LEAVING LA". Anyone know who the harp player was?
> And HAPPY THANKSGIVING!! MAY YOUR BELLIES BE FULL AND YOUR SOULS BE AT REST!
> Thank
> Ron Burton
> Having 'Gator for lunch LOL
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
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