[Harp-L] Playing chromatically on a diatonic (was Will Scarlett's place in the history of overblows)

[John Thaden]

Hi Laurent, hi all,
Interesting sound clip. 

Just by ear (laptop, no headphones), the 2nd and 3rd notes sound different to me than the others -- in their attack. There is a brief noise, a rustle, in the mid-upper frequencies, not as high as a sibilant (S) or fricative (F), but up there somewhere, bringing to my mind as if something lightly touched/rubbed the face of a mic, though I doubt that's what it is. But then the very same notes (same scale tones, presumably therefore same holes and reeds) lack that attack feature when they sound again (as notes 6 and 7 of the 9-note phrase), so the feature is probably unrelated to whether the reed is vibrating as an opening or a closing free reed, or whether another reed in its hole had to have been choked off by embouchure. 
 
Much more subtly, the 1st note's attack seems different to me than the remaining notes not discussed (4th through 9th), though the difference is harder for me to describe. It does remind me of a well-launched overblow, however. But again, when the same scale tone is repeated (as note 8) I don't hear the same attack quality. And since the phrase from note 7 to 8 is descending, it's not because note 8 is an 'assisted' overblow, one where the blow reed in the same is already vibrating, before being choked to allow the overblow. 
 
Aside from attacks, and the nice vibrato on the end note of the phrase, the nine notes are clear, beautiful, and indistinguishable to my ear. They do, however, sound like vibrating free reeds, not for instance strings, or beating reeds (clarinet, oboe, sax). But I'm not surprised by this, given that for in opening- and closing-reed vibrational modes, the reed basically is opening and closing an air port, same the rotating perforated disk in a siren.
Not sure what I'm contributing here except that our perception of timbre is a complex thing, but one that can be simplified by separately considering features of a note's onset/attack (frequencies unique to it, how fast it comes on, how long it lasts, how fast it decays), features during the middle of the sound (harmonicity, dominance of certain partials), and features as it decays (speed of decay, even pitch changes). I would ask Rick if his objection to overblow/overbend timbre has to do with their attack, or even with their timbre during a long held note?
For more on timbre, here's an interesting collection of figures from the history of considerations of it:  https://www.academia.edu/38557836
Thanks all,
-John Thaden (ublokr from harp-L of yore)
    On Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 06:07:46 AM CST, Laurent Vigouroux <laurent.vigouroux at xxxxx> wrote:  
 
 Hi all

In my opinion, it is now proven overblows can sound well and can’t be spotted in a phrase.
But it seems not everybody agrees on that (cf RD comment below).

As some people may hear tone differences better than me, I’d like to submit a sound excerpt to the community:
https://www.planetharmonica.com/NextGen/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Audio038.mp3

(it’s not played by me).

Would you spot the overblows in this phrase, just by ear? Please don’t use an harp to find out. Just your ears.
I would be very interested in your feedback.

Thanks!

Laurent


RD wrote
>>
>>> I just think it sounds bad. Even from the very best practitioners (Filip
>>> Jers, to name one) it sounds out of sorts with the rest of the
>> instrument.
…
>>> Like I said some time back, it reminds me of 'Esperanto', artificially
>>> created to make a 'universal' language.
>>> The only place it seems to have survived is with Esperanto enthusiasts.
>>> I think OB/OD technique will remain popular with devoted diatonic harp
>>> players, but that's it.
>>> I've been putting off saying this for years, but I'm getting old and have
>>> ceased to care!
>>> RD