[Harp-L] Springs for the Seydel Saxony

[Joseph Leone]

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Sheltraw <macaroni9999 at xxxxx> wrote:
> 
> Thanks again, Joe 
> 
> My understanding, from talking to a Seydel rep (no need for names I guess), is that the spring in the Saxony had fairly recently been changed to a stiffer version because of breakage complaints for the older version.

I can still see some suspicion here. I have noticed that with stiff springs on pruning shears that the springs last about a 4-5 years. My softer shears have been going strong for 16 years. Go figure. My theory is that if you temper springs too much, you defeat the purpose of the spring. Whose main duty is to give long continuous dependable spring action on plethoras of machinery. We see this a lot in magazine springs. High capacity magazines have to have a spring with enough strength to be able to push rounds in a dependable manner. If you try to load the springs with TOO much work, they are more likely to fail. 

> My older version springs definitely were breaking a lot so I see the need for doing something about the issue. But the new replacement springs are just too stiff for an experienced player IMO. Glad to see there is a fix. 
> 
> Daniel
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Jerry Deall <jdeall at xxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>> Simonize, always knew you were a smooth operator. 
>> 
>> 
>> Jerry Deall
>> SPAH Secretary 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> From: 3n037 at xxxxx
>> To: macaroni9999 at xxxxx
>> Cc: harp-l at xxxxx
>> Sent: 2017-09-27 12:41:26 PM 
>> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Springs for the Seydel Saxony
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Sheltraw <macaroni9999 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Joe
>>> 
>>> That sounds like a good approach.
>> 
>> I don’t know about good, but at the time I was a mere 14 and living in Italy. Had no knowledge of harmonica players (per se) and did what I thought I could get away with to keep my chromatic running.
>> For breath savers I would use doubled slivers of recording tape (oxide side down), safety pins for springs, and thick discarded nail polish for glue. I soaked the wood combs in a 50/50 mixture of Noxema
>> and baby oil..later switched to mineral oil, replaced buttons with real buttons, rounded corners, and Simonized (a car wax) the cover plates and mouthpieces. I don’t claim to be the first, as this sort of thing
>> is more or less just common sense. But when you don’t have any access to outside influences, you make your own.  
>> 
>>> What you are suggesting is that I compress the spring to change the equilibrium position of the spring.  In the new equilibrium configuration the displacement from equilibrium will be smaller (because there will be less initial compression) and therefore the force due to the spring will be decreased. Perfect!
>> 
>> Yes, that’s the ticket. A stock spring has to be almost fully depressed when fit into the retaining hole. At least on old 270 Hohner 48s. So, in effect you have already loaded the spring with tension. Then when 
>> you actuate the spring, you are adding tension. The deal is to close the legs of the spring a bit so that the ’starting’ point for the tension is altered and then when you force the spring into the retaining hole, there
>> is less tension from the start. In this way, when you add tension by actuating the slide, you are already starting with less tension. So, the ultimate result is less tension.  
>>> 
>>> Hmm ... A small point, but I wonder how much the spring constant will change by changing the equilibrium point. I would think that this probably won't be much of a concern.
>> 
>> No, it won’t be of much concern to most people. Chromatics are designed (as much of the world is) to the 7/8ths ‘rule’? In other words, 7 out of 8 people fall into a group that one could call average. Like for 
>> example, a male is 5’ 10 1/2”, 176.5 lbs on the average. And males on either side of this by an inch or two or 5 or 10 lbs would be considered average. So back to design. Most products are designed for the
>> average person. People whom are larger, smaller, heavier, lighter might be considered to be the 1 in 8 whom aren’t average. Example: A man (or woman) well over 6 feet tall may have trouble driving around
>> in a Fiat 500 or small sports car. 
>> 
>> Conclusion? A chromatic will fill the bill for almost everyone. But a discerning experienced player may find them lacking in some areas. Therefore we have custom made chromos., premium grade chromos. etc.
>> I actually like the lighter feel of a safety pin. There is less of a chance to push the button and NOT bottom the slide out and therefore catch a piece of ‘another’ note instead of a clean note. The only dilemma with
>> a softer slide action is that the slide parts have to be clean and smooth. I carry a small eyedropper sized plastic bottle of water, and one of alcohol. If my slide(s) get sluggish, I simple spritz them a tiny bit.  
>>> 
>>> I will give it a try this week.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the pro-tip!
>>> 
>>> I love the Saxony chrom slider system except for the stiff spring. If this modification gets me the spring force I want then this harp will be near perfect.
>> 
>> I’m not familiar with that spring but in the past springs were bare metal. At which time I used cadmium plated safety pins. Then springs went to cadmium or nickel plating (much better), and by that time I was using
>> chromed safety pins.The old springs would sometimes ‘rip’ at the eye, and that left you with 2 pieces of wire that looked like fish hooks. They always ripped obliquely (on an angle), were very very sharp. Especially
>> if the wire had been wound against the grain. I have never ever had a safety pin break. I now use the wife’s pins. They are for quilters. 
>> 
>> jo-zeppi ( formerly: the 4M company. Mars metallurgy, machine, & manufacturing. P.O. box 777, Mars, Pa.)_
>>> 
>>> Daniel
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 8:40 AM, Joseph Leone <3n037 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Ok, to weaken a return spring you compress the legs of the spring to where there is less ‘arc’ travel. The departure angle of most springs is in the 93 degree range. 
>>>> This will give you an ‘inch-ounce’ of torque strength of (let’s say just for argument) 9.66 inch ounces. Squeezing the legs together to around 81 degrees will give you 9.0
>>>> inch ounces…a NOTICiBLE difference. 
>>>> 
>>>> By shortening the spring arm’s travel arc you are lightening the force needed to push the slide. Be sure to place the retainer pin IN the springs eye when you squeeze 
>>>> the legs of the spring. Me? Since 1956 I have merely tossed the springs and used safety pins. With proper ‘dog leg’ bent in, if needed. The only chromatics I have ever
>>>> had that had the tension I wanter are Hering & East top. 
>>>> 
>>>> sm0joe
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 2:23 AM, Sheltraw <macaroni9999 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, but maybe I am not doing it right. Got any tips?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 25, 2017, at 9:04 AM, Joseph Leone <3n037 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Have you tried a #2 safety pin? 
>>>>>> sm0joe
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 25, 2017, at 2:01 AM, Sheltraw <macaroni9999 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi, guys
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Seydel springs in my most recently purchased (past year) Saxony chromatics are just too stiff. Does anybody know whether springs from any of the other harmonica manufacturers will fit the Saxony? These stiff springs are cramping my style ... literally!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>