[Harp-L] Saxony spring

[Sheltraw]

Hi Joe

I need your machinist expertise for a moment. Seydel lists the spare part for this flat head machine screw used to hold the spring in place as a M2.5 x 14. What do these numbers mean? What might be good key words to use to search for a replacement screw that was not threaded in the midsection?

Daniel 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 4, 2017, at 11:22 AM, Joseph Leone <3n037 at xxxxx> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2017, at 2:04 PM, Sheltraw <macaroni9999 at xxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Joe
>> 
>> If I can't get a screw that is smooth in the mid section then the ferrule idea may work. I will check out how much room I have to work with this evening.
> 
> Some harmonicas (especially diatonics) have cover screws that have a smooth middle section, and only have threads on the last 1/3rd. One of these may work IF you can find one long enough for the thicker comb
> of a chromatic AND have the correct threads per inch (mm). Threads per inch usually come in increments of 4. Iow 80, 72, 64, 56, 52, 48 and so on. They also come in either sae (society of american engineers) coarse or fine, OR metric. Most of my stuff comes from dissected vcrs, tape players, turntables, disc players, dvd players, boom boxes, toasters, blenders, washing machines. Basically anything that the family has tossed out.   
>> 
>> One other thing about this threaded screw. For some time I had noticed a roughness in the slider and I could  not find the source. Now I think I know the source.
> 
> The feel (I sometimes call grittiness) can come from that. It can also come from burrs on the slide holes,  
>> 
>> Bad design, Seydel! Stop cutting corners. You just create unhappy customers.
> 
> In all honesty I don’t think anyone is doing these things on purpose. I and a tool and die friend feel that the people at the plant are just following orders. And that those people are more executives than actual professional
> players. Hohner has Rick Epping and Steve Baker copnsulting, so they have made improvements. Seydel has had consultants too. I think Brendan may have been one. And considering that Seydel had been behind the famous ‘ferrous drapery’ for 45 years or so, I think they have made enormous catch up and are probably, right now, THE most harmonica friendly/bending to desires company.
> 
> Over on another list we dissect this sort of thing on a continuous basis. Some of it is frustrating. As member Gary Lehman (repairs los extrordinaires) could probably attest. 
> 
> Jo-zeppi
>> 
>> Daniel
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Joseph Leone <3n037 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 4, 2017, at 4:20 AM, Sheltraw <macaroni9999 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have also noticed that the replacement springs for the Saxony are two stiff. I shortened the short arm of the spring and that helped but not enough. 
>>> 
>>> As I had said bending the legs of a ‘lever’ spring closer together will lessen the tension. That’s because the ‘load-up’ point changes. Unfortunately some springs are so stiff to begin with that
>>> you can force the legs almost closed..then they run out of working room (swing) and are still too stiff. In which case try another spring from another brand chromatic. Ok, this is why I chose to 
>>> use safety pins. I was only 13 at the time, there was no internet, I was living in Italy, and I didn’t know what else to do. 
>>>> 
>>>> Any ideas to make the spring less stiff?
>>>> 
>>>> One reason these springs may be breaking frequently is that the Saxony spring doesn't have a nice smooth peg running through its coil center like Hohner harps do.
>>> 
>>> Uh-huh. Some makers use a steel drift pin to hold the eye of the spring. Good idea. Some use a plastic moulded peg in the comb molding process. Bad idea. 
>>> 
>>>> What runs through the center of a Saxony spring coil is a screw with threads along its entire length. 
>>> 
>>> Ok, bad BAD idea. First of all most of these springs are tempered steel wire. Sometimes cadmium plated. The threads act like miniature saws. If hard enough metal they will nick the wire. And that will, in time, cause breakage. Because #1.  The spring is CONSTANTLY being flexed against the threads, and 2.  the threads are CONSTANTLY sawing away at the wire. See if you can replace that screw with something like a pin.
>>> 
>>> story: A fellow once replaced a spring but when he did so the eye of the spring wouldn’t fit ON the retaining pin. SO..he used a round file and opened up the eye on the spring. Scraping away that metal in the eye of the spring caused it to break. So don’t ever DO that. Don’t touch a spring. The inch ounces of torque built into it are engineered. 
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe the friction of the threads on the inner surface of the spring coil is marking and weakening the spring there.
>>> 
>>> Exactly. 
>>> 
>>>> I have noticed that both broken springs have snapped in the coil part of the spring.
>>> 
>>> Yes. Leaving you with 2 pieces that look like fish hooks. The rip is usually oblique. The rip follows the ‘grain’ of the wire. Wire has a grain. And if loaded into the forming spool one way. it will rip one way. And if loaded another, it will rip the opposite way. Since the tension on a spring comes when it’s being closed (and not opened), the wire grain should face one way for all springs. 
>>> 
>>>> To reduce the chance of this happening I would like to get a screw for mounting the spring that only has threads at the distal end (for threading into the opposite reed plate) and is otherwise smooth. Any ideas where I might be able to get such a screw?
>>> 
>>> I do not live near you, don’t have an idea of the threads per inch (or mm), or what it looks like. But I DO have drawers and drawers of small parts. So what you need to do is try and match that screw….somewhere?
>>> What you ‘could’ try is to coat the threads to ‘jam’ them up, cover the threads with something. Like teflon tape. OR what I might do is try to place a ‘ferrule’ into the eye..if there’s room for it, and then seat the screw. 
>>> 
>>> smo-joe  welcome to the world of crazy chromatics. 
>>>> 
>>>> Daniel
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 3, 2017, at 10:48 AM, Joseph Leone <3n037 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You may have gotten unlucky BUT this model is relatively new, so time will tell. We have to watch and see how many people have this problem.
>>>>> You ‘may’ be able to do something I have been doing since 1956. Replace the spring with a #2 safety pin. That’s the one that is about 1 1/2” long,
>>>>> (38mm). The legs, when open will have a departure angle of roughly 45 degrees. You may have to adjust to suit the amount of tension you prefer.
>>>>> IOW spread legs and tension goes UP, Squeeze them together and tension goes DOWN. Choose high quality pin, chrome plated, preferably a 
>>>>> quilt makers pin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> smo-joe 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, Sheltraw <macaroni9999 at xxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have had two Saxony springs break within four months of use on two different Saxony chromatics. Is anybody else experiencing poor spring quality or did I just get unlucky?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>> 
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