RE: [Harp-L] Re: The Groove?

[chicago bluesman <chicagobluesman@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Good thoughts, Jon.  When I read the original posting my thoughts, too, were that the way to address the issues raised is to listen, play and feel rather than overthink it.  To me, it's irreducible--you can't reverse engineer it, won't be successful by breaking it down into its component parts, you can't hope to function like a food scientist where you isolate the chemical basis for grape flavoring and then recreate it.  Nope.  But, still, I'm sympathetic to the question.

The process of acquiring comfort with the instrument and becoming fluent in a style of music--blues in all its forms, country, bluegrass, jazz, Irish fiddle tunes--is much like learning a language.  First come the basic skills in producing the requisite noises--the phonemes.  On the harp, this would be comparable to learning to produce single notes cleanly, with strong and stable tone.   Then you learn grammar, structure, phrasing--like basic words and phrases.  Eventually you acquire the skill to say what you want to say but...then the hard part starts: you need to have something interesting to speak about.  That really is the hardest part.  Finding your own ideas.

My advice: listen and be moved by other players.  Like speech, it starts with emulation.  Sample all of the great players that are constantly referenced here.  Listen to live players.  Play along with a few--just a few--fav recordings in a call-and-response fashion.  Push yourself to learn a few key riffs or melodies verbatim--like Big Walter's solo on Walking By Myself or Juke in its entirety or Cotton's standard solo on Blow Wind or Big Walter's Trouble In Mind or the classic Sonny Boy riff that usually opens Nine Below Zero or...whatever.  But don't think that copying these tunes/riffs will be the key.  Be patient.  Always be working on something.  Experiment with the subtleties such as your attack, differences in embouchure (I shift between pucker & u-block constantly, with occasional tongue block octave chords), volume, hand effects, vibrato, breathing and control of your air column.  You may find a way to get optimal tone if you're relaxed and find an embouchure and playing stance that seems to let the instrument resonate and sing most freely.  It should be mostly fun and relaxed but you really have to be patient with the process.  

My two cents.

John

> From: jonkip@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:06:06 -0700
> To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [Harp-L] Re: The Groove?
> 
> all this well-meaning and logical talk about Groove is interesting. Unfortunately, it will most likely, lead nowhere, but don't stop trying, there's an answer somewhere, and someone may actually find words that help.
> 
> The Groove, or the Feel, is not easily described in words.
> 
> And for you scientific folks out there, asking intelligent questions about The Groove, I suggest that you just listen, play along and NOT try to analyze it to death.... I've never seen it work. Words? no, sounds? Sure.
> 
> I was once doing a film scoring class at USC, or UCLA, one of those places, and one student composer came in and asked us, all professional working musicians, exactly how many DB difference was there between the dynamics PPP and MP?
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> That was a totally logical question, FOR WHICH THERE IS NO REAL ANSWER. On top of which, at that point, the guy totally lost us... we figured him for a musical novice/idiot, and blew him off..... figuratively ...we were not as nice as we should have been, but from that point on, we really couldn't take him seriously... that was not nice of us. 
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> People asking real, coherent, scientific , honest questions like that are, most likely, not going to ever find a good answer by reading words.
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> You probably can't have a concrete answer to a nebulous question like "what's a groove?" and "how do I get one?", "are they cheaper by the dozen?""do you get free groove shipping on Amazon?".
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> It's almost one of those "well if you have to ask, you don't have it" kinds of questions....
> 
> But then, to be fair and constructive, how does one learn that? I mean, at age seven, playing clarinet, I had no discernible groove... and a few years later, it arrived nicely.... Why? Well , not by talking about it, that's for sure. I suspect it was by having years of playing behind me...with other people.
> 
> I suspect that the very idea of using words to describe how to get a Groove, is destructive to the process....or at least an impediment... thinking vs listening.
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> so how do adults learn The Groove?
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> probably by listening and playing with others, but not by analyzing it....
> 
> I know that analyzing, via some kind of Scientific Method, works for lots of things, but I don't think discussing "The Groove" or "Swing", will be helpful....(but certainly don't let me stop you, you deserve an answer)
> 
> My last experience with realizing that I had NO groove, was on a small project I'm doing with David Naiditch.... combining his gypsy jazz and whatever style my jazz is, on one tune. After we did it, I heard it back, realized that I had totally missed the groove laid down by the guitar player, and corrected it... no talking about it, just listening, and the internal "Oh my goodness, that's sucking big time, I'll have to fix that" popped up and it was fine in the end......
> 
> so perhaps the clue to The Groove is "Less Talk, more Listening?"
> 
> It's got to be difficult to realize that The Scientific Method doesn't always work for everything.
> 
> But I think it's true....
> 
> jk
> 
> http://jonkip.com, where there are some grooves that work, and some that don't. 
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