Re: [Harp-L] RE: Fair Trade Music

[Mike Wilbur <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

As me O'L Mum would say Steven .... " no good deed goes unpunished " I'm sure most of us understood your point even if we would have used a Verb or two differently.

Thanks for your effort

Mike Wilbur



On Mar 3, 2013, at 1:50 AM, "Steve Power" <stevepower@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> When I sent the original post I had no idea I was asking for opinions or that this was a political forum. It never crossed my mind that putting forward an idea that might actually make things better in the world would cause some to get so upset that they felt the need to send direct to me their personal philosophies couched in no uncertain terms. At first I thought to ignore them for what they are but unfortunately it somehow is in the nature of those who shout the loudest about freedom to demand that theirs be the sole definition of the word. But believing in the sentiment, "âBad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." - John Stuart Mill - here I go...
> 
> If some of you don't like the idea of Fair Trade Music, that's fine. Ignore it. Move on. Don't participate. If you choose to post your opinions, despite not being asked for one and in a non-politicial forum at that, at least get some facts straight. For example:
> 
> "Fair" and "Trade" here are arbitrary value judgments. Who will you trust
> to establish "fair" pay? One size fits all? (Fair is what you can get
> when negotiating the gig!)
> 
> Nothing in Fair Trade Music suggests an imposition of pay by some unseen body. The rate of pay is determined by exactly what is mentioned, a negotiation. I would also mention there is a Fair Labor Standards act, the very existence of which would suggest allowing proprieters or market forces alone to determine what is fair proved to result in unfair practices so severe they required an act of Congress to attempt to correct.
> 
> I'd like to earn better pay and play [work] better rooms, too. But wanting
> and wishing doesn't make reality.  Harmonica players earn "what the market will bear" regardless of how
> delightful and talented we think we art. I don't fundamentally "deserve" a
> minimum wage from anyone.
> 
> Better rooms has nothing to do with it. Better pay however never came about by be being a good little worker bee, wanting and wishing for something better but doing nothing.   There would be no such thing as benefits such as company health insurance and pensions if workers hadn't demanded them. There would be no overtime, maximum hours of allowed work without overtime, child labor laws, or any sort of living wage if workers hadn't fought for it with blood in the streets. 
> 
> I would suggest that regardless of what vocation one is in the pay rate for that labor is greater than if no one had ever fought for something better.  We all owe a debt to those that did regardless of our occupation, with the possible exception of kings and dictators.
> 
> UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES
> Club owners may agree to participate for a time, yet faced with higher
> per-night costs, will cut somewhere else to maintain their profit. Maybe
> fewer nights... maybe shorter hours, 2 and 3 hour gigs instead of 4. Or cut
> corners elsewhere in the business.
> 
> If a business makes a cut somewhere else to maintain a profit, one could safely assume they are seeing the value in paying for the live music rather than cutting the music.  If they have fewer nights of live music it could well mean the music they do have is of a higher quality since they're not just filling nights with anyone who is willing to play for nothing. Pay peanuts. Get monkeys. I've seen it time and again that when the only criteria for a band is how cheap they are eventually there is no more venue.  Crap bands drive out customers.  Good bands attract and keep customers.. The best and most commercially succesful venues are those that maintain a standard and pay for it. They become those great clubs that always have a crowd because the public knows if a band is playing there they must be good or they wouldn't be there. That's the base line.
> 
> As to something less than four hour gigs. The downside of that would be what?  Not enough filler?
> 
> Less desirable gigs are where musicians sharpen their skills, and prepare
> to play [work] better ones. Take away those opportunities, and we actually
> stunt the growth of new harmonica players.
> 
> Not being able to make enough to even meet the expense of doing a gig hardly creates opportunities for growth.  One of the reasons that so much great, commercially succesful music, came out of the UK was because of social clubs where live music was booked without a strictly profit motive. You always knew you had base pay and a base crowd. The better you were or the better you became the bigger the crowd and the greater the pay but at least you had something more than nothing to start. And if you were crap you didn't get a gig at all. That is true survival of the fittest. And there always parties, benefits, street corners, all sorts of places to play for free and sharpen ones skills without being exploited.
> 
> Further there have been many studies showing that a minimum wage does not in fact, as opposed to opinion, have a negative affect on employment. One such study by two economic professors at Princeton showed that employment in low wage jobs actually showed an increase when the minimum wage was increased and that when compared to neighboring states with a lower minimum wage the rate of employment was also higher.  If more people have more money there is more for everyone. 
> 
> SUCCESSES?
> Where can I read about those successes in Portland?
> 
> I suggest if one were to genuinely want an answer to that they contact Fair Trade Music in Portland. It's not something that's going to make Fox News and I don't live in Portland to have direct knowledge of specifics. I only know what I have been told by those on the scene.
> 
> And finally, if there were never an attempt by labor to set standards for that labor we could literally just wind the clock back to the age of serfs and lords.  I have no doubt some would like to do that.  This attitude of "I'm alright jack and sod the rest of you", is to me un-American on it's face.
> 
> I realize that this is very much off topic for this forum and for that I apologize. I will address this no further. I only do so now because of the amount of vitrol that I have received and could no longer let stand.  I would ask that it stop.
>