Re: [Harp-L] Swing vs. Shuffle

[46long Blake <46long@xxxxxxxxx>]

Jason Ricci once said to me about swing: "Sure, swing is a type of rhythm,
but within that framework, swing is about messing with that rhythm. A
computer can't swing. You need to mix things up - hit the mark just a
little early, or a little late now and then."

(Jason, if you're reading this, and if I've misquoted you, please forgive
me. It was many years ago.)

 - Blake

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Slim offers a good description of shuffle, but I make a distinction
> between shuffle and swing.
>
> What they have in common is that the beat divides unequally - the first
> "half" of the beat is longer than the second "half."
>
> With shuffle, the beat divides into three equal parts. You can state all
> three parts, but most of the time you divide it in 2, with the first part
> taking up 2/3 of the beat and the second part taking up the last 1/3.
>
> Swing *can* do that, but doesn't always. Jazz bassist/composer Charles
> Mingus made this point in some of his writings. And if you listen to jazz
> records, you'll hear some players using the 2/3 + 1/3 formula, and others
> pushing the second part of the beat early, almost to the 1/2 mark while
> others push it late, almost to the 3/4 mark. Sometimes you can hear al
> three approaches from different soloists on the same song.
>
> There's another element to swing that is much harder to define. I remember
> being in a department store and hearing, over the piped-in music, Nat King
> Cole singing a standard; I no longer remember the specific song. Then a
> violin takes a solo break (I later found out that the violinist was Stuff
> Smith). The violin swung like crazy even though he was playing all
> on-the-beat notes, not dividing the beat at all. It was something abotu the
> way he was attacking the notes. I've heard the same thing in Louis
> Armstrong's live video of "Dinah," recorded in Copenhagen in the early
> 1930s.
>
>
> Winslow
>
>
> Winslow Yerxa
> Author, Harmonica For Dummies, ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
>             Harmonica Basics For Dummies, ASIN B005KIYPFS
>             Blues Harmonica For Dummies, ISBN 978-1-1182-5269-7
> Resident Harmonica Expert, bluesharmonica.com
> Instructor, Jazzschool for Music Study and Performance
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Slim Heilpern <slim@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Elizabeth Hess <TrackHarpL@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; harp-l harp-l <
> harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Swing vs. Shuffle
>
> Someone else can hopefully provide a better description, but I'll take a
> shot at it...
>
> Starting with 4 beats to the bar, divide each beat in 3. Count it out in
> slow motion: 123 123 123 123... Now, leave out the '2' (but leave rhythmic
> space for it): 1_3 1_3 1_3 1_3..... Now, _accent_ the 3 and you have the
> basis for a shuffle.
>
> Swing is similar, but it tends to have fewer of the '3' accents actually
> stated - a more relaxed feel, looks more like this: 1__ 1_3 1__ 1_3, with
> the accent on '3'.
>
> Using music notation, the actual figures I described would be written with
> a dotted eighth note (the '1's) followed by a sixteenth note (the '3's),
> but it's usually just written out as straight eighth notes to avoid
> clutter, with the groove stated as swing or shuffle, or not stated at all.
>
> Different styles of music have different formulas for playing a shuffle
> groove (with respect to instrumentation), but the rhythmic basis is the
> same. In a band situation, when playing a shuffle, often one instrument
> (piano, guitar, etc..) will tend to play a staccato chord on the offbeats
> (the '3's) to accent them.
>
> Hope that helps...
>
> - Slim.
>
> www.SlideManSlim.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 4:35 AM, Elizabeth Hess wrote:
>
> > What is the difference between "swing" and "shuffle", if any?
> >
> > Elizabeth H. (aka "Tin Lizzie")
> >
>



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