Re: [Harp-L] Over-priced Custom Big Rivers and the Future of the Blues

[Mike Fugazzi <mikefugazzi@xxxxxxxxx>]

I want it to be really clear that I personally think $200-300 for a
harmonica is fair, depending on the design (can play relatively
chromatically).  I got burned by Harrison, gladly bought a SUB30, and have
bought customs from a number of customizers.  The current pricing for OOTB
harmonicas is what it is.  Small business owners aren't the ones driving
those prices, but IME working with the big companies, which is a fair
amount, I don't see people getting rich off of working for a harmonica
company.

Price points are set by basic economics, and at the very least, seeing
similar pricing from all the major manufacturers leads me to believe that
they are either being competitive within the market, or a part of some huge
conspiracy theory.

You should learn to play on at least a good OOTB harp as it will make you
play better for any number of reasons...and I mean the best you can access.
 It will also help your technique, and most importantly, the music you are
able to express.  You don't have to have "custom" harmonicas to do this,
although there are quite a few benefits to doing so.  I am also of the
attitude that you should be able to do your own basic reed work and
maintenance.

Joe's post about the 95% was fantastic!
----------
Mike Fugazzi
vocals/harmonica
http://www.mikefugazzi.com
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/MikeFugazziMusic>
YouTube <http://www.youtube.com.user/mikefugazzi>
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
<http://www.mikefugazzi.com/fr_customharmonicas.cfm>



On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Tom Halchak <thalchak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Hello Mike:
>
> Good to hear from you. As I stated in my post, I meant no offense.  Your
> reputation as a customizer is well established.  Like I said, I'm sure your
> custom harps are worth every penny you charge for them.  I know it is a bit
> of an apples to oranges comparison (a custom harp vs. and OOTB harp) but I
> was amused by the juxtaposition of your for sale post and the conversation
> about the high price of the SUB-30.  You have made a lot of great
> observations about the SUB-30 you've been working on since SPAH and I, like
> many others, appreciate them.  I never suggested that you made any comment
> about its price.
>
> All the best.
>
> Tom Halchak
> www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
>
>
>
>
> ---- Mike Fugazzi <mikefugazzi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Ever the salesman, Tom.
> >
> > My overhead for a custom GM, not counting labor, is a lot more than $35,
> > and I know that you know that.  You also know that my pricing for a
> > traditional harmonica is well under $250.   I don't recall commenting on
> > the cost of the SUB30 being unfair.  I gladly paid retail and then took
> my
> > own free time to try and improve it.  I have posted, though, that such an
> > instrument should probably be priced near that of a chromatic. Heck, I
> am a
> > Hohner endorser!  $300ish for a MINT diatonic that let's you bend notes
> > like this is totally appropriate in my book.  I would play around $300
> for
> > the type of SUBs Brendan had.
> >
> > I think you get what you pay for.  My custom prices are consistent with
> my
> > competitors, and I feel morally obligated to stay close to their prices
> for
> > comparable work for a number of reasons.  I think cutting corners,
> > undercutting price, trying to steal clients, or delivering an inferior
> > product just to save a few bucks or grow my business takes the meaning
> out
> > of what I am trying to do and is classless.  For example, you'd never see
> > me emailing or calling friends of the competition to get a cut of their
> > action.  I could easily give free or cheap harps to pro players that are
> > worth $250, as I am friends with quite a few, just to get something in
> > return, but why?  FWIW, I did give one player a free harp because I
> screwed
> > up a booking arrangement that cost him $40.
> >
> > To each his own, really.  I don't care what people play.  Should I be of
> > some help to them, though, all the better for me! If this means doing
> > custom work, then so be it. I mean, really, if I was in it for the
> money, I
> > could easily sell $100-$125 harps all day long.
> >
> > Back to my participation recently on Harp-l, which was around the
> SUB30...I
> > think $185 or around there is totally reasonable, but I would totally
> > assume having to tweak the gapping no matter who I was.  I've put about
> > 10hrs of playing in on it, and it is the only non-Richter harp I've been
> > that into.  That being said, my personal Marine Bands let me to every bit
> > as much and are easier for me to play - they are louder and I am more
> > familiar with the note layout.
> >
> > On Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:28:48 PM UTC-5, Tom Halchak wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been enjoying this conversation that has been sparked by
> comments
> > > about the SUB-30. It has gone off in some interesting tangents.  It
> really
> > > feels like there are a bunch of guys sitting around, perhaps sipping on
> > > their favorite adult beverage, and having an open and honest discussion
> > > about what is important to them.  So many great points have been made
> and
> > > I
> > > would like to add my commentary to some of the things said by a
> variety of
> > > people.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In the interest of full disclosure I think it is important for you to
> > > understand where I am coming from because my comments will certainly be
> > > influenced by my perspective as an after-market harmonica parts guy.  I
> > > have
> > > been playing the harmonica for right at 40 years so I have witnessed
> > > first-hand the escalating prices of harmonicas over the years.  I have
> > > also
> > > been in the after-market business since January 2011 so I have torn
> apart
> > > and reassembled more harps than the average guy. At this particular
> moment
> > > in time I have over 500 combs in stock, about 200 sets of powder coated
> > > cover plates and easily 200 harmonicas.  This is not meant to be an
> > > advertisement.  I'm just sayin..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Let me start by pointing out that the people who read and post on
> harp-l
> > > and
> > > other harmonica centric forums are a different class of people.  Not
> > > better
> > > or worse - just different.  My guess is that the average harp-l
> > > contributor
> > > is far more knowledgeable about and been playing the harmonica far
> longer
> > > than the average harmonica player.  Brendan stated that "The diatonic
> > > harmonica is the biggest selling instrument in the world - in terms of
> > > units
> > > sold."  On some of the old Marine Band boxes Hohner printed words to
> the
> > > effect of, "Hohner employs 6,000 workers and produces 20 million
> > > harmonicas
> > > a year."  Twenty Million a year for the past 100+ years!  That's a lot
> of
> > > harmonicas and a lot of harmonica players.  How many subscribers does
> > > harp-l
> > > have - 200, 500, 1,000?  Whatever the number, it is a very small
> > > percentage
> > > of the harmonica playing population.  Most of the stuff we obsess about
> > > never even enters the mind of the "average" harmonica player.  Does
> that
> > > mean this stuff is not important?  No. Of course it's important.  After
> > > all,
> > > SPAH is the Society for the Preservation and ADVANCEMENT(!) of the
> > > Harmonica.  We're the ones who want to see progress!  But let's
> understand
> > > that as far as the harmonica is concerned, we have much higher
> standards
> > > than most.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken Deifik asked, "Does anybody like the Suzuki UltraBend out of the
> box?"
> > > I do.  It plays as well out of the box as any other good harmonica.
>  Could
> > > it be made to play better with some "customization"?  Of course - but
> name
> > > one harmonica that can't be similarly described.  The last guy who
> tried
> > > to
> > > build an "Out of the Box harmonica that was as good as a Custom"
> famously
> > > went down in flames.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but so far
> nobody
> > > has
> > > built a successful company that could make this claim.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Look at it this way.  Take what most would describe as an
> "Intermediate"
> > > player.  They are proficient at draw bends on the bass end of the harp
> and
> > > blow beds on the treble end.  They can't over-blow.  They can't do
> single
> > > reed valved bends on a valved harp.  Hand them a SUB-30 and, without
> any
> > > improvement in technique or skills and you've just added 6-8 notes to
> > > their
> > > repertoire.  Out of the box!  Give the average guy a choice between
> buying
> > > a
> > > $65 Crossover or Session Steel and tell them that it will be six
> months to
> > > a
> > > year before they can use over-blows or valved bends musically, or they
> can
> > > spend $200 and be able to play the same notes TODAY and I suggest to
> you
> > > that many will fork over the $200.  So yeah, out of the box it is a
> pretty
> > > damn good harp.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What about the price of harps and custom harps?  Harps, like everything
> > > else, are getting more expensive.  Does it really cost Suzuki that
> much to
> > > make a SUB-30 that than say a Manji?  I dunno.  I have no idea how
> Suzuki
> > > determined the price.  But if the 30 reed diatonic is indeed the
> harmonica
> > > of the future and given that the patent has expired and anybody can
> build
> > > them, how long will it be before others enter the market.  Supply and
> > > demand.  Maybe competition will help drive prices down.  Maybe not.
>  We'll
> > > see.  I'll tell you what I find ironic though is that interspersed
> among
> > > all
> > > this talk about paying $200 for a SUB-30, we've got Mike Fugazzi
> > > advertising
> > > a custom Golden Melody for $250.  No offense to Mike.  I'm sure his
> custom
> > > harp is worth every penny.  A Golden Melody is a $35 harmonica that has
> > > been
> > > turned into a custom harp with an asking price of $250.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So let's talk about customizing harps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Matt Smart has made a number of excellent points in his posts recently.
> > >  He
> > > brings a lot of experience to the table and makes a lot of sense.  Matt
> > > posted a comment recently on Facebook urging customizers to teach their
> > > customers some basic skills, such as gapping.  I couldn't agree more.
> > >  Matt
> > > and I are both very comb centric because we are both in the business
> but
> > > here's my take on the subject.  If you take the average harmonica, flat
> > > sand
> > > the comb (or replace it with a quality custom comb) and flat sand the
> draw
> > > plate to eliminate leaks, then adjust the gaps  - nothing more than
> that -
> > > you will have a harmonica that will meet the needs of 95% of the
> harmonica
> > > playing population.  A perfect example of this, by the way, is a direct
> > > response to the question posted by Michael Montgomery about the Big
> River.
> > > In the beginning of the summer I picked up 30 new Big Rivers at a very
> > > good
> > > price.  I offered them on my website with your choice of any custom
> comb
> > > for
> > > $35.00.  All I did was flat sand the draw plate, replace the comb,
> check
> > > for
> > > leaks and ship them out.   No gapping.  Just like they came from the
> > > factory
> > > with a better comb and flat sanded reed plates.  The feedback has been
> > > 100%
> > > positive.  They all turned out to be nice playing harps.  Are they
> > > over-blow
> > > monsters?  No, but I don't think that's what my customers were looking
> > > for.
> > > These simple steps are something that anybody can do.  Reed work is
> > > another
> > > story all together.  With the exception of the Marine Band which is
> still
> > > assembled with nails most harps nowadays can be taken apart with a
> > > screwdriver and made into better playing harp very easily.  Doesn't it
> > > make
> > > sense to acquire some of those minimal skills?  If more people did you
> > > would
> > > hear a lot less comments like, "I played the XXXX-Harp 20 years ago
> and it
> > > was a piece of junk" (therefore all XXXX-Harps are junk).  It is
> entirely
> > > possible that all that piece of junk needs was to adjust the gaps on
> the
> > > reeds and it would have been a perfectly good harp.  Not every out of
> the
> > > box is a winner and neither are they all lemons.  But it my firm belief
> > > that, unless you are talking about $10 Chinese toy harp, the vast
> majority
> > > of harps from the major manufacturers, Hohner, Suzuki, Seydel and Lee
> > > Oskar
> > > can be made to be good playing harps with a little bit of TLC.
> > >
> > > My friend Harvey Berman in New Orleans, a wonderful gentleman and a
> very
> > > fine customizer, created a thread on MBH asking if you really needed a
> > > custom harp.  Here's the link:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/1568722.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you watch Dave Barret's interview with Joe Spiers, you will come
> away
> > > with the same impression.
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie7tsb28Ywk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Most people really don't need full blown custom harps.  I do not
> believe
> > > that customizers are guilty of overselling but I do believe that many
> > > people
> > > buy custom harps because they think it will magically make them better
> > > players.  I hope these are not the same guys who are complaining about
> > > $200
> > > for SUB-30.  Wouldn't that be ironic?
> > >
> > > I know this post has run on kinda long.  Sorry about that.  I've been
> > > following the conversation for a few days and just haven't had time to
> > > inject my thoughts until now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Halchak
> > > www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
> > >
> > > Clearwater, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =======
> > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> > > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20600)
> > > http://www.pctools.com/
> > > =======
> > >
>
> --
> Tom Halchak
> W. J. Voege Financial Services, Inc.
> 2555 Enterprise Road, Suite 6
> Clearwater, FL 33763
> Phone: (727) 726-3378
> Cell: (727) 366-2608
> email: thalchak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Securities by Mr. Halchak offered through Investacorp, Inc.
> A registered Broker/Dealer Member FINRA, SIPC.
>