Re: [Harp-L] Over-priced Custom Big Rivers and the Future of the Blues

[Tom Halchak <thalchak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello Mike:

Good to hear from you. As I stated in my post, I meant no offense.  Your reputation as a customizer is well established.  Like I said, I'm sure your custom harps are worth every penny you charge for them.  I know it is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison (a custom harp vs. and OOTB harp) but I was amused by the juxtaposition of your for sale post and the conversation about the high price of the SUB-30.  You have made a lot of great observations about the SUB-30 you've been working on since SPAH and I, like many others, appreciate them.  I never suggested that you made any comment about its price.  

All the best.

Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com




---- Mike Fugazzi <mikefugazzi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
> Ever the salesman, Tom.
> 
> My overhead for a custom GM, not counting labor, is a lot more than $35, 
> and I know that you know that.  You also know that my pricing for a 
> traditional harmonica is well under $250.   I don't recall commenting on 
> the cost of the SUB30 being unfair.  I gladly paid retail and then took my 
> own free time to try and improve it.  I have posted, though, that such an 
> instrument should probably be priced near that of a chromatic. Heck, I am a 
> Hohner endorser!  $300ish for a MINT diatonic that let's you bend notes 
> like this is totally appropriate in my book.  I would play around $300 for 
> the type of SUBs Brendan had.
> 
> I think you get what you pay for.  My custom prices are consistent with my 
> competitors, and I feel morally obligated to stay close to their prices for 
> comparable work for a number of reasons.  I think cutting corners, 
> undercutting price, trying to steal clients, or delivering an inferior 
> product just to save a few bucks or grow my business takes the meaning out 
> of what I am trying to do and is classless.  For example, you'd never see 
> me emailing or calling friends of the competition to get a cut of their 
> action.  I could easily give free or cheap harps to pro players that are 
> worth $250, as I am friends with quite a few, just to get something in 
> return, but why?  FWIW, I did give one player a free harp because I screwed 
> up a booking arrangement that cost him $40.  
> 
> To each his own, really.  I don't care what people play.  Should I be of 
> some help to them, though, all the better for me! If this means doing 
> custom work, then so be it. I mean, really, if I was in it for the money, I 
> could easily sell $100-$125 harps all day long.
> 
> Back to my participation recently on Harp-l, which was around the SUB30...I 
> think $185 or around there is totally reasonable, but I would totally 
> assume having to tweak the gapping no matter who I was.  I've put about 
> 10hrs of playing in on it, and it is the only non-Richter harp I've been 
> that into.  That being said, my personal Marine Bands let me to every bit 
> as much and are easier for me to play - they are louder and I am more 
> familiar with the note layout.  
> 
> On Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:28:48 PM UTC-5, Tom Halchak wrote:
> >
> > I have been enjoying this conversation that has been sparked by comments 
> > about the SUB-30. It has gone off in some interesting tangents.  It really 
> > feels like there are a bunch of guys sitting around, perhaps sipping on 
> > their favorite adult beverage, and having an open and honest discussion 
> > about what is important to them.  So many great points have been made and 
> > I 
> > would like to add my commentary to some of the things said by a variety of 
> > people. 
> >
> >   
> >
> > In the interest of full disclosure I think it is important for you to 
> > understand where I am coming from because my comments will certainly be 
> > influenced by my perspective as an after-market harmonica parts guy.  I 
> > have 
> > been playing the harmonica for right at 40 years so I have witnessed 
> > first-hand the escalating prices of harmonicas over the years.  I have 
> > also 
> > been in the after-market business since January 2011 so I have torn apart 
> > and reassembled more harps than the average guy. At this particular moment 
> > in time I have over 500 combs in stock, about 200 sets of powder coated 
> > cover plates and easily 200 harmonicas.  This is not meant to be an 
> > advertisement.  I'm just sayin.. 
> >
> >   
> >
> > Let me start by pointing out that the people who read and post on harp-l 
> > and 
> > other harmonica centric forums are a different class of people.  Not 
> > better 
> > or worse - just different.  My guess is that the average harp-l 
> > contributor 
> > is far more knowledgeable about and been playing the harmonica far longer 
> > than the average harmonica player.  Brendan stated that "The diatonic 
> > harmonica is the biggest selling instrument in the world - in terms of 
> > units 
> > sold."  On some of the old Marine Band boxes Hohner printed words to the 
> > effect of, "Hohner employs 6,000 workers and produces 20 million 
> > harmonicas 
> > a year."  Twenty Million a year for the past 100+ years!  That's a lot of 
> > harmonicas and a lot of harmonica players.  How many subscribers does 
> > harp-l 
> > have - 200, 500, 1,000?  Whatever the number, it is a very small 
> > percentage 
> > of the harmonica playing population.  Most of the stuff we obsess about 
> > never even enters the mind of the "average" harmonica player.  Does that 
> > mean this stuff is not important?  No. Of course it's important.  After 
> > all, 
> > SPAH is the Society for the Preservation and ADVANCEMENT(!) of the 
> > Harmonica.  We're the ones who want to see progress!  But let's understand 
> > that as far as the harmonica is concerned, we have much higher standards 
> > than most. 
> >
> >   
> >
> > Ken Deifik asked, "Does anybody like the Suzuki UltraBend out of the box?" 
> > I do.  It plays as well out of the box as any other good harmonica.  Could 
> > it be made to play better with some "customization"?  Of course - but name 
> > one harmonica that can't be similarly described.  The last guy who tried 
> > to 
> > build an "Out of the Box harmonica that was as good as a Custom" famously 
> > went down in flames.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but so far nobody 
> > has 
> > built a successful company that could make this claim. 
> >
> >   
> >
> > Look at it this way.  Take what most would describe as an "Intermediate" 
> > player.  They are proficient at draw bends on the bass end of the harp and 
> > blow beds on the treble end.  They can't over-blow.  They can't do single 
> > reed valved bends on a valved harp.  Hand them a SUB-30 and, without any 
> > improvement in technique or skills and you've just added 6-8 notes to 
> > their 
> > repertoire.  Out of the box!  Give the average guy a choice between buying 
> > a 
> > $65 Crossover or Session Steel and tell them that it will be six months to 
> > a 
> > year before they can use over-blows or valved bends musically, or they can 
> > spend $200 and be able to play the same notes TODAY and I suggest to you 
> > that many will fork over the $200.  So yeah, out of the box it is a pretty 
> > damn good harp. 
> >
> >   
> >
> > What about the price of harps and custom harps?  Harps, like everything 
> > else, are getting more expensive.  Does it really cost Suzuki that much to 
> > make a SUB-30 that than say a Manji?  I dunno.  I have no idea how Suzuki 
> > determined the price.  But if the 30 reed diatonic is indeed the harmonica 
> > of the future and given that the patent has expired and anybody can build 
> > them, how long will it be before others enter the market.  Supply and 
> > demand.  Maybe competition will help drive prices down.  Maybe not.  We'll 
> > see.  I'll tell you what I find ironic though is that interspersed among 
> > all 
> > this talk about paying $200 for a SUB-30, we've got Mike Fugazzi 
> > advertising 
> > a custom Golden Melody for $250.  No offense to Mike.  I'm sure his custom 
> > harp is worth every penny.  A Golden Melody is a $35 harmonica that has 
> > been 
> > turned into a custom harp with an asking price of $250.   
> >
> >   
> >
> > So let's talk about customizing harps. 
> >
> >   
> >
> > Matt Smart has made a number of excellent points in his posts recently. 
> >  He 
> > brings a lot of experience to the table and makes a lot of sense.  Matt 
> > posted a comment recently on Facebook urging customizers to teach their 
> > customers some basic skills, such as gapping.  I couldn't agree more. 
> >  Matt 
> > and I are both very comb centric because we are both in the business but 
> > here's my take on the subject.  If you take the average harmonica, flat 
> > sand 
> > the comb (or replace it with a quality custom comb) and flat sand the draw 
> > plate to eliminate leaks, then adjust the gaps  - nothing more than that - 
> > you will have a harmonica that will meet the needs of 95% of the harmonica 
> > playing population.  A perfect example of this, by the way, is a direct 
> > response to the question posted by Michael Montgomery about the Big River. 
> > In the beginning of the summer I picked up 30 new Big Rivers at a very 
> > good 
> > price.  I offered them on my website with your choice of any custom comb 
> > for 
> > $35.00.  All I did was flat sand the draw plate, replace the comb, check 
> > for 
> > leaks and ship them out.   No gapping.  Just like they came from the 
> > factory 
> > with a better comb and flat sanded reed plates.  The feedback has been 
> > 100% 
> > positive.  They all turned out to be nice playing harps.  Are they 
> > over-blow 
> > monsters?  No, but I don't think that's what my customers were looking 
> > for. 
> > These simple steps are something that anybody can do.  Reed work is 
> > another 
> > story all together.  With the exception of the Marine Band which is still 
> > assembled with nails most harps nowadays can be taken apart with a 
> > screwdriver and made into better playing harp very easily.  Doesn't it 
> > make 
> > sense to acquire some of those minimal skills?  If more people did you 
> > would 
> > hear a lot less comments like, "I played the XXXX-Harp 20 years ago and it 
> > was a piece of junk" (therefore all XXXX-Harps are junk).  It is entirely 
> > possible that all that piece of junk needs was to adjust the gaps on the 
> > reeds and it would have been a perfectly good harp.  Not every out of the 
> > box is a winner and neither are they all lemons.  But it my firm belief 
> > that, unless you are talking about $10 Chinese toy harp, the vast majority 
> > of harps from the major manufacturers, Hohner, Suzuki, Seydel and Lee 
> > Oskar 
> > can be made to be good playing harps with a little bit of TLC. 
> >
> > My friend Harvey Berman in New Orleans, a wonderful gentleman and a very 
> > fine customizer, created a thread on MBH asking if you really needed a 
> > custom harp.  Here's the link: 
> >
> >   
> >
> > http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/1568722.htm 
> >
> >   
> >
> > If you watch Dave Barret's interview with Joe Spiers, you will come away 
> > with the same impression. 
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie7tsb28Ywk 
> >
> >   
> >
> > Most people really don't need full blown custom harps.  I do not believe 
> > that customizers are guilty of overselling but I do believe that many 
> > people 
> > buy custom harps because they think it will magically make them better 
> > players.  I hope these are not the same guys who are complaining about 
> > $200 
> > for SUB-30.  Wouldn't that be ironic? 
> >
> > I know this post has run on kinda long.  Sorry about that.  I've been 
> > following the conversation for a few days and just haven't had time to 
> > inject my thoughts until now. 
> >
> >   
> >
> > Tom Halchak 
> > www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com 
> >
> > Clearwater, FL 
> >
> >   
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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--
Tom Halchak
W. J. Voege Financial Services, Inc.
2555 Enterprise Road, Suite 6
Clearwater, FL 33763
Phone: (727) 726-3378
Cell: (727) 366-2608
email: thalchak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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A registered Broker/Dealer Member FINRA, SIPC.