[Harp-L] Triple reed lo D Auto Valve

[Richard Sleigh <RHARP@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Winslow & Paul,

I am quoting your post & putting my comments in-between so this post does not take up a lot of space:

W - "The problem with this configuration - and all three- and four-reed combinations involving dedicated responder reeds, is that the rresponder reeds will sound when you don't want them to."
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R- That is a little like saying "The problem with chromatic harmonicas is that the reeds blank out when you don't want them to"  

 I used to torture chromatic harmonicas because I wanted them to bend like Marine Bands. It never worked.  I had to learn what worked on a chromatic and then emphasize that. Of course, trying to make the chromatic sound like a marine band led me to a lot of happy accidents and i learned a lot. but nothing really came together for me till I got used to "the way" of a chromatic.

The responder reeds of a triple reed harmonica respond in a way that is predictable when you spend time with the instrument. I think it is possible to play it and learn to avoid the discord. Just out of curiosity, did you listen to my youtube session with the lo D? 

http://youtu.be/rzNHv2qMfg8

I think of it as an example of moving in the direction of extended bluesy expression - not perfect, but I do eliminate most of the worst combinations. 

 If you play mostly single note runs in the top two octaves and work your reflexes so you are finessing the blow bends in the top octave and draw bends in the middle octave, and you have the first octave set up like a normal blues harp, then you have a lot of great new options....

And you can hit the top octave draw bends with wild abandon with not fear of responder reeds kicking in....

I think that refinements in reed set-up and playing style will make triple reed harps a great new way to extend the possibilities of the harmonica. 

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W -  "This is a problem with the Sub 30. It is also a problem with versions built on the Auto Valve comb. I know because Joe Filisko built one in 1992 and sent it to me (I gave it to Steve Baker, and haven't seen it since). 
 
It is not a problem with the XB-40 due to Rick Epping's brilliant comb design, which directs air in such a way that the responder reeds cannot make inappropriate noises.
 
However, the inner duct work in Rick's design makes the harmonica bulkier than a standard diatonic."
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R - I also built a lot of 4 reed type harps starting in 1984, and for some reason never messed with the triple reed idea till just recently. I just had some very strong ideas that limited my experiments - I hated wind savers, for example, so I wanted to make my rigs work without them. Turned out to be an engineering nightmare to have one way valves in the mouthpiece.... 

I also think Ricks XB 40 is brilliant, but I want the sound of reeds sharing a common space, which is the essence of the sound of the standard diatonic harmonica. It gives my breath direct access to the reeds, and I can feel and hear the difference when I play.  It is this intimacy with the reeds that gives me a sound that I cannot get any other way.  I am willing to put up with the learning curve to get at a whole new world of sounds and expression. The SUB 30 and other variations like my hybrid harps, are all harps that have the reeds sharing a common space in each chamber. They are experimental test planes to me. Let the wild rumpus begin! It is too late to turn back now.....
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From: Paul Bowering <paul_bowering@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 9:32 PM
Subject: Re:[Harp-L] Lo D Auto Valve Triple Reed Harmonica

Another inventive approach to employing enabler reeds. Richard, you made a triple reed version. I'm wondering if a version that provides an auxiliary/enabler reed for each main Blow and Draw reed would work:
 
1) Top plate regular Blow reed and enabler draw reed.
2) Bottom plate regular Draw reed and enabler blow reed.
3) Valve main Blow and Draw reeds to conserve air.
4) Set enabler reeds with zero offset.
 
Some folks have complained about the new SUB30's low octave. I don't (yet) have one but it is my understanding that the Blows are okay because the Draw reeds are valved. The problem comes with the Draws because too much air lost through the additional enabler reed. With the proposed above both Blow and Draw are valved yet each has a dedicated enabler reed allowing for traditional  blues bends. Air would always hit one reed with standard gapping and two more with zero offset. I think it would be reasonably airtight. Not quite a regular diatonic sized harp but closer than the XB40. Might you even be able to get rid of the horizontal divider of the Auto-Valve comb?

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R- Sounds like you have a great idea for an experiment - why don't you build one?  

i am totally into the triple reed thing for now, want to see where it can go.  I am planning on trying out a 260 comb and re work it to get rid of the divider, or cut it down a lot. 
One of the reasons I like the triple reed idea is that it does cut down on the number of ways responder reeds can "go off" if they are all in the same chamber, like the SUB 30. 

You describe the problems with the SUB 30 well. They can be minimized with a good upgrading, but I learned a long time ago that long reeds are very tricky to work for blow bends. thats why I taped off the extra reeds in my SUB 30s in the first octave. I am a lot more interested in what I can do with this combination than trying to finesse the reeds in the first octave. People like Filip Jers and Brendan Powers are doing some great things with the basic SUB 30  setup, however, so they prove you don't have to tape off the first octave responder reeds. 

Anyhow, thanks for your interest and ideas!

Richard Sleigh

P.O. Box 23
Boalsburg PA 16827

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