Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop? (David Naiditch chromatic, David Payne 48 chord and mandolin)

[David Payne <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

This is an even better example, I think. This is one of my favorite musical memories. It was the Bluegrass Jam at SPAH 2010. One of the nights. Lonesome Midnight Waltz. I was playing 48 chord, David Naditch on chromatic. Then, at the end of the clip, I was playing your sweet old Gibson mandolin Cara and David joined in with his chromatic. It was one of my absolute favorite musical memories, right up there with some of my memories of my grandfather's music.

Here is the clip:
http://elkriverharmonicas.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/audio/lonesomemoonlightspah2010.25115603.mp3

 
David Payne
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
www.hetrickharmonica.com


________________________________
 From: Cara Cooke <cyberharp@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop?
 
David is correct.  There are many regional differences in bluegrass across
the country, but the basics remain.  The clip he linked shows a good
representation of providing off-beat back up on a chord.

Cara

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:15 PM, David Payne
<dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Bluegrass in Appalachia and the Ohio Valley is a bit different than it is
> in Texas and it's really different in California, but this is a universal
> thing Cara's talking about. My grandfather was of the same general school
> of thought as Cara about many things, he had specific roles for each
> instrument and specific roles for specific situations, although I don't
> recall him ever saying anything about who plays on the 2 and 4 and who does
> not. He was a HOT mandolin player, I mean HOT, but he didn't always play
> hot. He played very reserved licks on songs with vocals, his saying was
> "save the hot licks for the instrumentals."
> I grew up with his bluegrass and my father's, so I'm very familiar with
> all of that and accept most of them, but at the same time, I added some of
> my own ideas to what the Payne family was doing musically - I'm the fourth
> generation of musician in my family - I developed a lot of my own ideas
> about what the harmonica could do.
> When you play a chord with a mandolin, the sound isn't a harmonica and
> mandolin. It is one sound, that's a bit richer. It works and I've done it
> for years.
>  I put the harmonica on the 2 and 4 beat with the mandolin as a general
> rule.
> You can hear them together here. This is a pretty good example, because at
> first it's just me and Roy Clark Jr., then the mandolin comes in later, so
> you can see how the sound changes.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErqlTrMj3Lc
>
>
> That dude from the Barcelona Bluegrass band also chops, but I haven't seen
> him play with a mandolin.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnSbMLfG_VE&feature=related
>
>
> David Payne
> www.elkriverharmonicas.com
>
>
>
> From: Cara Cooke <cyberharp@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Brian Stear <brianstear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass chop?
>
> Metronome practice is never a bad idea, but live practice is just as
> important.
>
> Back up comes in a lot of different ways.  It takes time to learn to feel
> what is best at what moment.  Sometimes, not playing at all, is the best
> choice.  Watch for those moments and seize them.
>
> For playing "chops", I usually provide this guidance:
> In bluegrass, in particular, the "chop" on the off-beat is owned by the
> mandolin.
> Do not overshadow the instrument that owns a part or you may create
> confusion.
>
> If there is no mandolin, then the banjo will try to fill in with its
> pinched notes for chops.  The guitar will be heard, too, but, hopefully,
> the downstroke on the guitar will not linger too long or there will not be
> as crisp a sound for the "chop" as is normarlly desired.  If this is the
> situation, continue to keep your "chops" sharp, balanced with the others,
> and inside the realm created by the combination of the banjo and guitar.
> Remember that the mandolin does this and try to pretend you are simply a
> quieter mandolin.
>
> For back up fills, I generally turn to the fiddle.  It can, and
> occasionally will, "chop", but fiddlers more commonly provide harmonic
> tones and occasional runs/fills underneath it all.  They generally provide
> great guidance to common runs and how they can be applied, and often are a
> great source of how to tastefully apply them, as well.
>
> Remember, in a bluegrass band, only two instruments can really carry a long
> tone: the fiddle and the harmonica.  As a consequence, the fiddle is a
> nature guide to how the harmonica can blend and perform in balance with the
> other bluegrass players.
>
> Cara
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Brian Stear <brianstear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> > Been getting into bluegrass and Celtic more....but......I have the
> darnest
> > time playing a simple chop like the mandolin for more than a minute or
> two
> > ( now I know why the mandolin player moved away from me at the last jam
> > session I sat in on ).
> >   Is this as simple as turning on the metronome, and practicing? Or
> should
> > I just lay out? WWCCD? ( What would Cara Cooke do ).....
> > What do you guys do when at a bluegrass jam session?
> >
> > Brian
> >
>