RE: [Harp-L] positions you can use on diatonic

[JersiMuse <jersimuse@xxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks for your detailed explanation Bob.
Strangely, it appears that all people using positions don't have the same
definition.
I am used to describe them a bit like you do, not directly related to modes,
but not far from them :-)
For example, when I was playing the Blues, I was used to think the  1st pos
as a major pos in the lower octave and more as a blues pos, mixed between
maj and min, in the upper octave. This disappeared of course when I've
learnt overblows. I think the vision also depends on the player's technical
capacities.

>> " As a practical matter, there are good reasons why many players stick to
the first three positions.  The notes lay out more naturally on the
instrument and they more naturally sound better."

In a certain kind of configuration, for a certain kind of music and licks, I
do agree with that.

>> "The purpose of technique for me is to get the instrument out of the way
of the music inside my head. So if you are hearing notes in your head that
your harp does not naturally produce, learn the techniques. Or, learn the
techniques as a means of exploring your instrument more fully and therefore
give yourself more ideas for your music. Just remember the whole point of
the exercise is to get the music in your head into the listener's head--not
to show off what can be done"

I agree 100% with this !!! But positions, especially used as described in
the previous point, are far from being efficient to play the music I have in
my head.
That's exactly the point.

Thanks,

Jerome
www.youtube.com/JersiMuse

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Bob Cohen [mailto:bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Envoyé : dimanche 1 avril 2012 23:21
À : JersiMuse
Cc : 'Arthur Jennings'; 'michael rubin'; harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx;
philharpn@xxxxxxx
Objet : Re: [Harp-L] positions you can use on diatonic


On Apr 1, 2012, at 5:15 AM, JersiMuse wrote:

> But if positions are not related to modes, and only give the root 
> compared to the harp used, then, what is their utility ?

Modes and positions share many "genes" but as a practical matter express
different concepts. The former refers to playing the same set of notes
beginning from a different place.

Mode*	Name		Notes			Quality
----	----		-----			-------
1	Ionian		C D E F G A B C		Major
2	Dorian		D E F G A B C D		Minor
3	Phyrigian	E F G A B C D E		Minor
4	Lyidian		F G A B C D E F		Major
5	Mixolydian	G A B C D E F G		Major (dominant)
6	Aeolian		A B C D E F E A		Minor (Relative Minor)
7	Locrian		B C D E F G A B		1/2 Diminished (relates to
the V chord)


The names don't really matter. What does matter, however, is that the half
and whole tonal steps fall in different places thus giving each mode a
different feel. And, each mode has different chord spellings. E.g., the
triad for Ionian or the 1st mode is C E G. The 2nd mode is D F A. and so on.
This arrangement gives each modal scale a different feel. The modal scales
also relate to other key areas. Whenever a song has a G7 chord, regardless
of the key, you can think in terms of C mixolydian to get all the notes of
the chord. This opens possibilities for what can be played on top of a given
chord.

Positions is a more of a pragmatic way of approaching the relationship
between the key of the song and how a given scale lays out on the harmonica.
Most people just memorize the positions that they need for the kind of music
they play. E.g,

Position	Harp Key					Quality
--------	--------					-------
1		Same as band					Major
2		Five notes down from the guitar key.		Major
3		Two notes down					Minor
(dorian)

... and so on ...

Learning positions gives harp players clues about the playability of a given
key on the harmonica. Blues harp makes heavy use of "second position" for at
least two reasons: 1. the good notes fall on draws and  2. Most blues songs
make use of the 7th chord. We all say I IV V when we usually mean I7 IV7 V7.
(More short cuts)

The chord scale of the I7 chord in blues lays out very naturally on a
standard tuned harmonica. Most folk music, blues, country, etc are
relatively simple harmonically. In the case of blues, the I IV V chord
structure is most prevalent. 

| I | I | I | I | IV | IV | I | I | V | IV | I | I/V |

Looking at the above chord structure the I7 chord is used in seven+ measures
of the song cycle. With the I7 naturally laying out between the 2d and the
6b with minimal bending, perhaps you'll see why most blues harp players use
"Second Position"?

***

As a practical matter, there are good reasons why many players stick to the
first three positions.  The notes lay out more naturally on the instrument
and they more naturally sound better.

The purpose of technique for me is to get the instrument out of the way of
the music inside my head. So if you are hearing notes in your head that your
harp does not naturally produce, learn the techniques. Or, learn the
techniques as a means of exploring your instrument more fully and therefore
give yourself more ideas for your music. Just remember the whole point of
the exercise is to get the music in your head into the listener's head--not
to show off what can be done. Except for connoisseurs and other musicians,
listeners don't give a rats ass about anything except for the song's ability
to create moments where nothing but the song exists. This is as close as
most people get to the sound of one hand clapping or what Buddhists call
enlightenment".

Bob=