Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass at SPAH

[Cara Cooke <cyberharp@xxxxxxxxx>]

Salt Creek layed out perfectly in 1st position.  I need to hear that.  Of
course, we may not be talking about the same tune.  The Salt Creek I am
talking about is in the key of A, played AABB, with the following chord
progresion:

A part:  A    D     G     E           A   D   E   A
            I     IV   bVII   V            I    IV   V   I

B part:  A     G     A     G     E     A
             I    bVII    I     bVII   V     I

If your Salt Creek doesn't have that chord progression, we are talking about
different tunes.  Because of the prominence of the bVII chord, 2nd position
would be the only way to get the standard melody, and the bVII in the B part
would prove particularly troublesome.

I hope to meet you sometime and you can show me what you mean.

Cara

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 4:12 PM, <tacopescado@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> In a couple of weeks I'll be at the Old Time Fiddler's Convention in Galax,
> VA (http://www.oldfiddlersconvention.com/). Fiddle tunes & bluegrass is
> what it's all about. I know many fiddle tunes but have never had to resort
> to any position other than 1st-3rd. Most are in 1st.
>
> Old Joe Clark & Red Haired Boy are definitely 2nd position with lotsa bends
> but Salt Creek lays out perfect in 1st.
>
> My fave is Devil's Dream.
>
> As for volume in that kind of setting.. the harp does not compete volume
> wise with a bluegrass ensemble consisting of a fiddle, banjo, mandolin,
> guitar and upright bass. I use an XB-40 in many of those situations. I don't
> like the tone relative to a standard diatonic but it's volume cuts better.
>
> Taco
>
>
>  <http://www.oldfiddlersconvention.com/>
>  On Jul 19, 2011, at 12:24 PM, Cara Cooke wrote:
>
>  Well, that tells me that I didn't write the sentence very well.  Sorry.
>
> I meant that bluegrass does not play best 'all in straight harp' or 'all in
> crossharp'.  The most commonly used positions in bluegrass for me are 1st,
> 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.  There are a couple of tunes where 12th comes in handy
> to
> prevent the need to switch harmonicas as the tune shifts keys.  I don't
> generally have to use 5th position unless we are playing a jazz tune, and
> then I don't need it that often.  There are a lot of pentatonic portions
> to
> bluegrass (major and minor) so that, when you identify them, you have the
> opportunity to choose between the three major positions and the three minor
> positions if you find the need.  That helps if you wish to keep the tune
> all
> on one harmonica when the tune itself changes keys.
>
> As for specific tunes, many songs and some tunes are very general and can
> be
> played in 1st or 2nd position, depending upon what the player wants to
> achieve.  However, some tunes are not that forgiving.
>
> Gary Primich and I once jammed on Jerusalem Ridge, for example.  He did it
> in 3rd position and it required him to overblow.  I played it in 4th
> position and didn't have to bend a note, but there is some coordination
> required for octave adjustments, the way I played it.  If you are fast at
> bending in the first octave, you might not have any adjustments to make at
> all.  If you have the tools, you get to choose the position you want to
> use.  Gary really prefered it in 3rd position.
>
> Old Joe Clark, Red Haired Boy, Katy Hill, Wheel Hoss, Monroebillia, Salt
> Creek, and other tunes with prominent bVII chords in them really do not
> play
> well in 1st position, but they may lay out perfectly for 2nd position.
> Seeing as so many of these tunes are played at blinding speeds, I truly
> appreciate it when a tune lays out perfectly in a particular position, and
> that is the position I tend to choose.
>
> Red Wing, Grandfather's Clock, and other tunes with prominent major II
> chords often sound best to me in 1st position.  A strong major II chord
> seems to be easier to get through melodically in 1st position.  However,
> there may be one or two where 2nd position is better, especially if there
> is
> a bVII with the major II or if the melody is particularly "blue".
> Blueridge
> Express (a banjo tune by Eddie Shelton) has both a prominent bVII and
> a prominent II, but 1st position works best on it for me.  The melody
> works
> right through the bVII chord and then moves on to a more prominent II
> major.
>
> Tunes like Draggin' the Bow, Salty Dog, and Beaumont Rag have swingy VIm,
> II, V chord patterns in them.  For me, 1st position works best.  The VIm
> chord melodies usually sound off in 2nd position.  For that reason I would
> put Foggy Mountain Breakdown in 1st position, too.  (The challenge grows
> if
> you combine Foggy Mountain Breakdown with Bluegrass Breakdown or any of the
> other combinations that have occurred.)
>
> [Foggy Mountain Breakdown is the most famous of the bunch, but Bluegrass
> Breakdown came first.  Played in the key of G, it was I, IV, V.  Foggy Mt.
> is I, VIm, V.  Others have been I, IIm, V and I, bVII, V.  The general
> melodic pattern remained, but adjusted to the change in the middle chord.
> Bluegrass Breakdown was a signature tune for Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass
> Boys, so when Flatt and Scruggs created the Foggy Mountain Boys, they
> changed the IV to a VIm and created a new signature tune: Foggy Mountain
> Breakdown.)
>
>  Stoney Creek is a banjo tune that moves from the key of A major to the
> key
> of F major.  The A major part actually has an A minor melody, so it can be
> played on a C major harmonica (4th position) with the F major portion
> fitting in nicely at 12th position.  This method takes a touch of practice
> before you get it right for most folks, as the unwanted notes can create a
> minefield through which you step gingerly.  The other solution would be to
> switch harps.  I like the challenge to keep it all on one harmonica,
> myself.
>
> I talked to a fellow once who never played anything but 1st position.  He
> didn't understand 2nd position.  So he played Folsom Prison Blues in 1st
> position and was happy with it.  I suggested how he might get started in
> 2nd
> position and try it there.  Today he plays Folsom Prison Blues in 2nd
> position.  Until you try both, some songs will not make it obvious which
> will work better for you.
>
> Cheyenne -- 4th and 1st positions.
> Black Berry Blossom -- 1st -- The whole first section is riddled with
> arpeggios.
> Clinch Mountain Backstep -- key of A Major (modal A minor melody) -- 3rd
> position.
> Shady Grove (minor key) -- 3rd position.
> Shady Grove (major key) -- 1st position, generally.
> Wild Horse at Stony Point (also called Fort Smith) -- 1st and 4th
> positions.
>
> If you think about it, and the tune supports it, 4th is relative to 1st,
> 3rd
> is relative to 12th, and 5th is relative to 2nd.  So, if a tune changes
> from
> a minor to a major key or vice versa, there is your opportunity to use the
> positions to your advantage.
>
> Lonnie Joe Howell and I both play Jesse Polka.  The tune moves through the
> keys of G, C, and D major.  Lonnie likes to do it using 2nd, 1st, and 3rd
> positions (with lots of bends, especially to make the 3rd position major).
> I like to do it with 1st, 12th, and 2nd -- requiring no bends.  Choose the
> positions that suit your needs and desires, but make sure that what you
> chose blends in with the music being played by everyone else.
>
> Cara
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:04 AM, John Kerkhoven
> <solo_danswer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>  Cara,
>
> Thanks for your recent posts on bluegrass. I've begun this year to play
> with local players. I play harmonica and I sing. Most of my playing has
> been
> blues. I have a lot to learn about bluegrass and old-time music, but my
> basic technique is good and I have been met with encouragement and
> enthusiasm.
>
> I want to pick up on just one thing in one of your last posts. You say
>
>
> Bluegrass is highly modal, so it doesn't always sound best in straight or
> crossharp.
>
>
> Straight and cross harp is pretty much all I play when I play at the
> bluegrass and old-time jams. I get a lot of mileage out of cross harp in
> particular. I can hit my bent notes accurately and I can play at speed on
> most tunes.
>
> Your comment makes me feel like I'm missing something important. Could you
> elaborate? If not straight or cross harp, what do you play? 12th position?
> Can you give an example of a modal song that you would play on the
> harmonica
> but not in either straight or cross harp?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>