Re: [Harp-L] bluegrass at SPAH

[John Kerkhoven <solo_danswer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thank you, Cara, for that response. 

(Woodshed, here I come!) 

John


> Well, that tells me that I didn't write the sentence very well.  Sorry.
> 
> I meant that bluegrass does not play best 'all in straight harp' or 'all in
> crossharp'.  The most commonly used positions in bluegrass for me are 1st,
> 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.  There are a couple of tunes where 12th comes in handy to
> prevent the need to switch harmonicas as the tune shifts keys.  I don't
> generally have to use 5th position unless we are playing a jazz tune, and
> then I don't need it that often.  There are a lot of pentatonic portions to
> bluegrass (major and minor) so that, when you identify them, you have the
> opportunity to choose between the three major positions and the three minor
> positions if you find the need.  That helps if you wish to keep the tune all
> on one harmonica when the tune itself changes keys.
> 
> As for specific tunes, many songs and some tunes are very general and can be
> played in 1st or 2nd position, depending upon what the player wants to
> achieve.  However, some tunes are not that forgiving.
> 
> Gary Primich and I once jammed on Jerusalem Ridge, for example.  He did it
> in 3rd position and it required him to overblow.  I played it in 4th
> position and didn't have to bend a note, but there is some coordination
> required for octave adjustments, the way I played it.  If you are fast at
> bending in the first octave, you might not have any adjustments to make at
> all.  If you have the tools, you get to choose the position you want to
> use.  Gary really prefered it in 3rd position.
> 
> Old Joe Clark, Red Haired Boy, Katy Hill, Wheel Hoss, Monroebillia, Salt
> Creek, and other tunes with prominent bVII chords in them really do not play
> well in 1st position, but they may lay out perfectly for 2nd position.
> Seeing as so many of these tunes are played at blinding speeds, I truly
> appreciate it when a tune lays out perfectly in a particular position, and
> that is the position I tend to choose.
> 
> Red Wing, Grandfather's Clock, and other tunes with prominent major II
> chords often sound best to me in 1st position.  A strong major II chord
> seems to be easier to get through melodically in 1st position.  However,
> there may be one or two where 2nd position is better, especially if there is
> a bVII with the major II or if the melody is particularly "blue".  Blueridge
> Express (a banjo tune by Eddie Shelton) has both a prominent bVII and
> a prominent II, but 1st position works best on it for me.  The melody works
> right through the bVII chord and then moves on to a more prominent II major.
> 
> Tunes like Draggin' the Bow, Salty Dog, and Beaumont Rag have swingy VIm,
> II, V chord patterns in them.  For me, 1st position works best.  The VIm
> chord melodies usually sound off in 2nd position.  For that reason I would
> put Foggy Mountain Breakdown in 1st position, too.  (The challenge grows if
> you combine Foggy Mountain Breakdown with Bluegrass Breakdown or any of the
> other combinations that have occurred.)
> 
> [Foggy Mountain Breakdown is the most famous of the bunch, but Bluegrass
> Breakdown came first.  Played in the key of G, it was I, IV, V.  Foggy Mt.
> is I, VIm, V.  Others have been I, IIm, V and I, bVII, V.  The general
> melodic pattern remained, but adjusted to the change in the middle chord.
> Bluegrass Breakdown was a signature tune for Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass
> Boys, so when Flatt and Scruggs created the Foggy Mountain Boys, they
> changed the IV to a VIm and created a new signature tune: Foggy Mountain
> Breakdown.)
> 
> Stoney Creek is a banjo tune that moves from the key of A major to the key
> of F major.  The A major part actually has an A minor melody, so it can be
> played on a C major harmonica (4th position) with the F major portion
> fitting in nicely at 12th position.  This method takes a touch of practice
> before you get it right for most folks, as the unwanted notes can create a
> minefield through which you step gingerly.  The other solution would be to
> switch harps.  I like the challenge to keep it all on one harmonica, myself.
> 
> I talked to a fellow once who never played anything but 1st position.  He
> didn't understand 2nd position.  So he played Folsom Prison Blues in 1st
> position and was happy with it.  I suggested how he might get started in 2nd
> position and try it there.  Today he plays Folsom Prison Blues in 2nd
> position.  Until you try both, some songs will not make it obvious which
> will work better for you.
> 
> Cheyenne -- 4th and 1st positions.
> Black Berry Blossom -- 1st -- The whole first section is riddled with
> arpeggios.
> Clinch Mountain Backstep -- key of A Major (modal A minor melody) -- 3rd
> position.
> Shady Grove (minor key) -- 3rd position.
> Shady Grove (major key) -- 1st position, generally.
> Wild Horse at Stony Point (also called Fort Smith) -- 1st and 4th positions.
> 
> If you think about it, and the tune supports it, 4th is relative to 1st, 3rd
> is relative to 12th, and 5th is relative to 2nd.  So, if a tune changes from
> a minor to a major key or vice versa, there is your opportunity to use the
> positions to your advantage.
> 
> Lonnie Joe Howell and I both play Jesse Polka.  The tune moves through the
> keys of G, C, and D major.  Lonnie likes to do it using 2nd, 1st, and 3rd
> positions (with lots of bends, especially to make the 3rd position major).
> I like to do it with 1st, 12th, and 2nd -- requiring no bends.  Choose the
> positions that suit your needs and desires, but make sure that what you
> chose blends in with the music being played by everyone else.
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:04 AM, John Kerkhoven
> <solo_danswer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> 
>> Cara,
>> 
>> Thanks for your recent posts on bluegrass. I've begun this year to play
>> with local players. I play harmonica and I sing. Most of my playing has been
>> blues. I have a lot to learn about bluegrass and old-time music, but my
>> basic technique is good and I have been met with encouragement and
>> enthusiasm.
>> 
>> I want to pick up on just one thing in one of your last posts. You say
>> 
>>> 
>>> Bluegrass is highly modal, so it doesn't always sound best in straight or
>>> crossharp.
>> 
>> Straight and cross harp is pretty much all I play when I play at the
>> bluegrass and old-time jams. I get a lot of mileage out of cross harp in
>> particular. I can hit my bent notes accurately and I can play at speed on
>> most tunes.
>> 
>> Your comment makes me feel like I'm missing something important. Could you
>> elaborate? If not straight or cross harp, what do you play? 12th position?
>> Can you give an example of a modal song that you would play on the harmonica
>> but not in either straight or cross harp?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>>